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Little misunderstanding

originalsturge

originalsturge

litre bikes are fun
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Location
Vernowhere OR
Moto(s)
02 M900sie

13 RC8R touring edition(gone but not forgotten)
Name
Dan Sturge
On saturday morning on my way to work at around 945am in Daly City I made the left onto gellert and the guy in front of me lights up his brakes. I think i paniced and grabbed too much front and my front end tucked up and the rear came around really fast and i lowsided. What Im wondering is what could have made the front go out like it did? Was it too much front brake? was i still in a slight lean and didnt realise it? happened right at the gellert/serremonte intersection just in front of the gas station. I was in the number 1 turn lane and was in the middle of the lane judging by my tire skid mark and the peg marks on the pavement.

Got really lucky with this one as there was a Daly City firetruck at the opposite light and they were blocking traffic before i had stopped sliding into the curb.:thumbup I think the best outcome was the bikes frame slider is a little worn down and the engine case cover got polished. As for me I have to wait and see if the pain in the shoulder goes away and for the swelling in my thumb to go away.
Sorry for the book but does anyone have any ideas as to how this could be avoided in the future? Seems like it may have been a freak thing to happen to me. Thanks.
 
how fast do you think you were going when you "grabbed too much front"? How long had you been riding prior to this incident?

and FWIW... no such thing as a "freak thing"
 
sounded like you were surprised by the guy in front of you getting on his brake. So the question is: how far ahead were you scanning? Could you have predicted what he was going to do (ie brake) by scanning ahead of him and seeing what he saw (kid running into street, traffic in the lane slowing down, etc). What part of S.E.E. (search, evaluate, execute) was not done here?
 
Centering your focus 12 seconds ahead will help you anticipate slowdowns so you're reacting to events ahead of the guy in front of you, rather than reacting to what he does. Maintaining a 2-second following distance gives you time and space to react if you are surprised by a sudden stop.

But it sounds like the immediate cause of your crash was grabbing rather than squeezing the brake. The front brake must be squeezed progressively, not grabbed suddenly, because full braking force cannot be applied until weight has transferred to the front tire. The squeeze makes that possible. Motorcops are taught to count one full second ("one one thousand") from initial application to full braking force [1].

I sort of assume you've taken MSF. But if you haven't, do. All of this is covered in the class, and you'll get plenty of coached practice time to develop your skills.


[1] I've heard the "one second count" from one motorcop and I seem to remember reading it somewhere. But I don't have it from a published source. Is this indeed how front brake technique is taught? If not, can anyone tell me how it is taught?
 
May I ask how close were you to the cage in front of you? Along similar lines of what Dan asked about scanning 12 seconds ahead, if you gave an ample amount of cushion space between you and the cage in front of you, you might not have acted with panic braking.

Distance is key. Most modern cars are now even equipped with ABS, while us on bikes have to modulate our breaking power on our own (unless you have one of those fancy BMW's with ABS :cool). So always leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front of you to come to a smooth, complete stop, if they decide to slam on the breaks. And this distance does vary with the speed that you are traveling.

I know I'm no expert, but I would like to think that I have a logical mind. So take this with a grain of salt if you must, but do take it into consideration. :nerd
 
Cause of crash? Following too closely. If you weren't, you wouldn't have had to panic brake in the first place.

The rest (braking, tucking, lowsiding) are just why you weren't able to save yourself from error #1, not the direct cause of the crash.
 
I was going about 20-25mph, i was scanning ahead but not far enough and was a little interested in the idiot next to me creeping into my lane. I dont think i was following too closely but i may have been it happens sometimes. As far as what DataDan is saying i think it was mostly caused by my grabbing the brake, as that would explain the sprained thumb on that hand. I took the MSF BRC course about 15 years ago, the ERC about 10 years ago, maybe i just need to get into another course again. Couldnt hurt. Oh and I'd been riding about 15 mins prior to the accident or for 15 years depending on what you were asking Yakoo11. First crash in 9 years so I think I've been doing something right all these years.
Thanks for the feedback, Im looking into taking another motoclass again just to resharpen skills and thoughts.
 
originalsturge said:
I I took the MSF BRC course about 15 years ago, the ERC about 10 years ago, maybe i just need to get into another course again. Couldnt hurt.
Click to expand...
:thumbup

I've repeated the ERC several times in the past 25 years and have always found that I gained something. Getting out there and doing drills in a controlled environment with a coach watching every maneuver freshens neglected technique.

And don't forget practice. Going out once a month and doing some hard stops and swerves reinforces skills so they come naturally when you need them.
 
I'm in with following too closely. Which caused you to be startled. Which caused you to overbrake the front.
 
Following to close, grabbed brake went down. Dont grab brake. Are your forks stock? You might have also bottomed them out.
 
afm199 said:
Following to close, grabbed brake went down. Dont grab brake. Are your forks stock? You might have also bottomed them out.
Click to expand...

Hadnt thought about the forks bottoming out. Would just being old have caused them to do that as well? Wondering if i may need to have them checked out and freshened up now.
After thinking more about it, I think I was following to close and jsut didnt realise it at the time. Thanks for all the input guys.:thumbup
 
When you overbrake an ABS bike the only thing that will happen is that you will stop without locking up a wheel. My bike will sink rather then dive which is another added safety feature. And yes it's one of those fancy BMW's.
 
originalsturge said:
Hadnt thought about the forks bottoming out. Would just being old have caused them to do that as well? Wondering if i may need to have them checked out and freshened up now.
After thinking more about it, I think I was following to close and jsut didnt realise it at the time. Thanks for all the input guys.:thumbup
Click to expand...


stock forks that have not been refreshed yearly will dive, yes.
 
Dan,
When I read your original post describing being surprised, panicked and grabbed the front brake, I thought, “newbie mistake”. But then I was really surprised when you wrote that you’ve been riding for 15 years, and that this was the first accident you’ve had in 9 years. Now that “newbie mistake” doesn’t explain what happened, I’m wondering what you did differently on this ride that led to the accident. Did you quit riding for a while (weeks or months, or years even) and just started riding again? Have you been riding regularly and how much riding do you do? Was that bike new and unfamiliar to you? Were you distracted somehow during that ride?
 
Gary856 said:
Dan,
Now that “newbie mistake” doesn’t explain what happened, I’m wondering what you did differently on this ride that led to the accident. Did you quit riding for a while (weeks or months, or years even) and just started riding again? Have you been riding regularly and how much riding do you do? Was that bike new and unfamiliar to you? Were you distracted somehow during that ride?
Click to expand...


originalsturge said:
...was scanning ahead but not far enough and was a little interested in the idiot next to me creeping into my lane.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how strong "a little interested in" is, but maybe that's the difference you were looking for?
 
I think i figured out exactly what i did by messing around in a parking lot. I think what happened was instead of grabbing too much front brake, I may have locked up the rear one, which would make more sense from the fall aspect. I realised this because I was thinking about what I do in situations while in the lot and realised that I cover my rear as well when in those kinds of situations and this time it bit me in the ass. I remember being taught to use the rear brake in my MSF class for those situations and think thats what I did. So to keep from doing this again I'm gonna sign up for another MSF class and the Alemeda Sheriffs motoclass so that I can "un-learn" to do things.

Gary856-Been on the r1 for 2.5 years, ride 110 miles a day for commute, and was probably paying too much attention to the moron creeping then to the one in front of me.
Thanks again for all the help guys. Now to get those classes sooner rather then later.
 
i dont think its a good idea to hit the rear brake while in a turn for the possibily of fishtailing and high siding if not controlled.. i myself have no M1 license, but after 3 years of riding experience, in a "i need to stop NOW' situation i would apply both brakes slowly but surely enough to stop but not lock the wheels. and if you must go ahead and tap the rear bumper.. its only rubber to plastic haha


maybe there was loose gravel or dirt in the intersection???
 
ridinthabay408 said:
i dont think its a good idea to hit the rear brake while in a turn for the possibily of fishtailing and high siding if not controlled.. i myself have no M1 license, but after 3 years of riding experience, in a "i need to stop NOW' situation i would apply both brakes slowly but surely enough to stop but not lock the wheels. and if you must go ahead and tap the rear bumper.. its only rubber to plastic haha


maybe there was loose gravel or dirt in the intersection???
Click to expand...

NOT qualified to give others advice, sorry bro

esp after this last thread. Its long, but worth reading :rofl:
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316515
 
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