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Old 07-06-2017, 08:21 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by FreeRyde View Post
I'd argue rear brake use is even more important on large touring and ST bikes. When you are trying to wrangle 750+lbs at speed it becomes very apparent that rear brake is REQUIRED. Why do you think linked brakes came about? Not because manufactures thought it was cool... They were employed to assist riders come to a safe stop or slow from speed safely without locking up or overloading the front braking system.

This makes me wonder if you've ever ridden a property set up sportbike (suspension wise) I use aggressive amounts of rear brake on all my bikes and have little fear of rear tire slide. Rear tire movement under braking comes from weight transfer to the front wheel, which can be altered by adjusting compression and or spring rates.
I agree with you that rear brake use is more important on a big ST bike, for the reasons I mentioned.

I've ridden bikes sprung for me and set up by Dave Moss at the track and on corner entry, dropping a couple gears and feathering the clutch (while on the front brake hard) is plenty to eat up all the traction the rear tire has.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:22 AM   #62
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This makes me wonder if you've ever ridden a property set up sportbike (suspension wise) I use aggressive amounts of rear brake on all my bikes and have little fear of rear tire slide.
All this tells me is you're not using your sportbike brakes to full potential. If you were, there would come a point where you have to get off the rear brake because there is no weight on that tire. If there is weight on your rear tire, there is margin for harder braking.

What your mentor was doing on a Goldwing is irrelevant to what you can do on a sportbike and comments about it being a suspension problem are ridiculous. As Junkie said, it is not possible to completely unload the rear tire of a Goldwing with the front brake. It is absolutely possible on a properly set up sportbike and is routine for some riders.

Does this mean people shouldn't use the rear brake? No, though it can be more distraction than hindrance for questionable gain, depending on the type of bike.

I've told this story before: Around 20 years ago, the Superbike School did a test with 50 riders, ranging in experience from novice to nationally ranked road racers. The riders were to make a hard stop using both brakes. The bike they were using had an over inflated rear tire to make it easier to lock up the rear.

The objective was to find out what riders tended to do when they locked the rear. The answer: 100% of them released both brakes. Riders can be trained out of that behavior, but the tendency is very strong and surfaces reliably in an emergency.

My own bias when it comes to riding is to keep decisions and control actions as simple as possible. The bang for the buck when it comes to braking is the front brake. Once you master the front, if you find something lacking, maybe the rear is useful. I too can think of all kinds of situations where I'd need the rear brake. Practice with it. Get good at it. Then decide what you're going to do as a matter of regular habit.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:27 AM   #63
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I've locked the front wheel on 2 bikes with linked brakes: VFR and VLX1800. I suspect that linked brakes primary purpose is to address incorrect (over-application) rear brake use in panic situations, followed closely by reduced stopping distance for average riders.

Weight transfer is certainly a contributor to the rear wheel lifting, but proper suspension set-up will not prevent lofting the rear wheel under braking.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:31 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by FreeRyde View Post
This makes me wonder if you've ever ridden a property set up sportbike (suspension wise) I use aggressive amounts of rear brake on all my bikes and have little fear of rear tire slide. Rear tire movement under braking comes from weight transfer to the front wheel, which can be altered by adjusting compression and or spring rates.
And even when suspension setup isn't optimal, there shouldn't be much that is scary about the rear sliding around under brakes.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:52 AM   #65
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And even when suspension setup isn't optimal, there shouldn't be much that is scary about the rear sliding around under brakes.
Ever tried to steer around a threat with your rear sliding?
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:01 AM   #66
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Can't do burnouts with linked brakes
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:32 AM   #67
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Can't do burnouts with linked brakes
Just roll it up against a wall. Who needs brakes when you do it that way.


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Old 07-06-2017, 12:36 PM   #68
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Always the front except for certain odd situations. If I happen to be in greasy shit, on dirt for some reason then a bit super tight down hill with a mix of the above.

I am in the my back wheel is in the air and the rear brake don't care camp. If I was younger and still tracking it I would try to adjust to more of a rear application, but honestly I am just fine with 100 front and 0% back.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:44 PM   #69
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I raced for 13 years. Never used the rear brake. However, now on the street I use the rear quite a bit. Not heavily though. Mainly to tighten my line and adjust my speed in corners.
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Old 07-06-2017, 01:09 PM   #70
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Just roll it up against a wall. Who needs brakes when you do it that way.


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That limits your options
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:02 PM   #71
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Ever tried to steer around a threat with your rear sliding?
I dont slide my rear then. So no.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:11 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by FreeRyde View Post
This has always been an interesting topic for me. Hard braking.
My riding mentor on the east coast would always say "if you're afraid to use the rear brake under hard braking you have a suspension issue, not a braking issue." and he rode a fully loaded goldwing 1800 like it was a moto gp bike...

If one is afraid to use the rear brake under hard braking because it might cause the rear to slide around, that person should adjust their suspension. Stiffen the front to handle extreme compression. More damps.

The more I watch extremely talented riders, the more I realized how important the rear brake is/was. I cannot imagine riding at a quick pace and NOT using the rear brake on every corner...
More compression damping in the front can reduce rear lift, but it can't eliminate it completely. And if your rear wheel is still on the ground when you're braking hard, that means that you can brake the front even harder. There are plenty of situations where using the rear brake makes sense, but maximum braking in a straight line on a sporty bike isn't one of them.

To put it another way, you need the rear wheel to be on the ground to use the rear brake. But if your rear is still on the ground, then you'll brake harder if you apply more front brake than if you apply the rear brake.

Note that using the rear to help weight transfer when you first start braking makes sense, but once the rear wheel lifts, the rear brake is useless.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:45 PM   #73
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I use the rear brake often. On tight roads, down hill, in places with broken up pavement (China Grade ), leaves, etc. Lots of places to use rear brake....clean straight line braking on a sport bike in not one of them.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:16 PM   #74
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I use both unless I'm tucked in a fast pace. It's either my shitty foot placement or simply being too much of a newbie to have any spare attention to pay to the brake.

My my brakes are partially linked (pulling front brake lever applies front and rear brakes), so it doesn't matter much, but it does bother me that I don't have enough skill to be able to control it.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:08 AM   #75
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Does this mean people shouldn't use the rear brake? No, though it can be more distraction than hindrance for questionable gain, depending on the type of bike.
I've seen this first-hand. The track school I used to work at regularly ran braking drills in the paddock. Students were asked to ride in a straight line at a fixed speed (~35mph, IIRC), then brake as hard as they could once they reached a set of orange cones. Each student was given three runs down the course: one where they used the rear brake only, one where they used the front brake only, and one where they used both brakes.

In general, 18 or 19 out of the 20 students in a group would stop shortest using the front brake only...
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