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Old 08-10-2018, 10:37 AM   #1
The Villain
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Which Classes for a Lightweight Single?

Having weighed a variety of options it looks like I'm going to make the (probably idiotic) decision to pimp and race my DR350 Supermoto at a couple of events next season.

{Build thread for that project can be found here}

So my question for you AFM folk is: which classes can I race with a (soon to be) 385cc air-cooled single?

Looking at rules and grids it seems like 250 Superbike and F3 are the classes where I wouldn't have to go up against significantly faster machinery, with Formula Singles another option if I don't mind getting creamed by REAL supermotos.

Whatcha think?
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:35 AM   #2
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Nada? I guess the question could also be framed as: which classes are Superbike-spec Ninja 250/300s and R3s running? Or are all those bikes sticking to Superstock configuration?

Legacy 250 appears to allow singles to ride down a class but at Superstock rules -- any chance for a dispensation for air-cooled singles?
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:13 PM   #3
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The Ninja 250/300 and Yam R3 are twin cylinder engines, so their class eligibility and yours won't line up perfectly.

Per the rulebook, I think your bike (stock) would be eligible for:
F3
Formula Singles
SBK 250 (you have the ability to run down a class in Superbike races)
SBK 450
Super Dinosaur (since you're on a 1994)
Legacy Light
SS 250 (you have the ability to run down a class in Superstock races)
SS 350 (I think, maybe it's 450; I'm not well versed in these)
Clubman Lightweight (if you're a Novice)
and AFemme Lightweight (if you're a lady)

As far as I know there's no class/displacement advantage for air cooled 4 strokes. Since you're pretty far from stock I think the Superstock classes are out. Everything else should still be OK though.
Paul Kieffer (pkieffer@afmrcing.org) is the Chief Tech Inspector at AFM, he'd probably be a bit more knowledgeable than I. I really only pay attention to the classes that apply to me haha.
A DR350/385 is going to be a bit outgunned but it'll still be a blast! And everybody appreciates crazy projects. Hope to see you out there next season!
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:04 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by csik magnet View Post
The Ninja 250/300 and Yam R3 are twin cylinder engines, so their class eligibility and yours won't line up perfectly.

Per the rulebook, I think your bike (stock) would be eligible for:
F3
Formula Singles
SBK 250 (you have the ability to run down a class in Superbike races)
SBK 450
Super Dinosaur (since you're on a 1994)
Legacy Light
SS 250 (you have the ability to run down a class in Superstock races)
SS 350 (I think, maybe it's 450; I'm not well versed in these)
Clubman Lightweight (if you're a Novice)
and AFemme Lightweight (if you're a lady)

As far as I know there's no class/displacement advantage for air cooled 4 strokes. Since you're pretty far from stock I think the Superstock classes are out. Everything else should still be OK though.
Paul Kieffer (pkieffer@afmrcing.org) is the Chief Tech Inspector at AFM, he'd probably be a bit more knowledgeable than I. I really only pay attention to the classes that apply to me haha.
A DR350/385 is going to be a bit outgunned but it'll still be a blast! And everybody appreciates crazy projects. Hope to see you out there next season!
I'll reach out to Paul, thanks.

I was asking about the little Ninjas and their ilk because I figure that's my most realistic competition, so I wanted to see which classes they were actually running to cross reference whether I can run in those too. Looks like just F3 and 250 Superbike. If I want to run 3 races on a weekend I'll have to dive into a "Get my ass royally kicked" class. I wish there was 350 Superbike!

Yeah, I know my choice of machine is going to be a bit of a challenge. If I get it in the shape I'm hoping to I think I might have some advantage over the 300s into and out of corners, but I'll probably get eaten on straights and fast sweepers. Should do well in the dirt sections, though (;
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:12 AM   #5
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I run my YZ450 in Formula 3 and Formula Singles. It would be legal for 250 Superbike if I had a WR frame, as that class requires a bike that was able to be registered for road use. So you could run those 3 classes. Plus the non-points clubman lightweight. There really aren't many supermotos in singles. Maybe 2 people all year show up for a race on a sumo. I think you'll be surprised how fast the smaller twins can hustle around any of the AFM tracks. In any of those classes you'll be bringing a knife to a gunfight, but you'll have a great time.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:38 AM   #6
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Was the DR350 factory plated, or just a dirtbike that was frequently plated? I suspect it has to be the former to count (but who knows).

I wouldn't expect a WR450 to count as able to be registered either, they were never factory plated.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #7
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I got protested for 250sbk this year, so looking into it with the AFM, I found if you can prove the bike was able to be street legal (i.e. you have an old road legal registration) anywhere in the world, it was legal for superbike classes.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:18 AM   #8
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That makes the "street legal frame" part meaningless - I've seen a pic of a TZ750 with lights and a plate. I've seen street legal CR500s, YZ250s, YZ450Fs like you have, etc.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:21 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Was the DR350 factory plated, or just a dirtbike that was frequently plated? I suspect it has to be the former to count (but who knows).
DR350s came in both factory plated and non-plated variants.

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Originally Posted by SquadraCorse View Post
I got protested for 250sbk this year, so looking into it with the AFM, I found if you can prove the bike was able to be street legal (i.e. you have an old road legal registration) anywhere in the world, it was legal for superbike classes.
My bike is street legal...it's my street bike and I have current registration.

The YZ450 got you protested? Bummer. You must be making a nuisance of yourself (;

Interesting to know that not many Sumos show up, though. Since it looks like there are no additional concessions for air-cooled over water-cooled singles, I was starting to get worried that I'd have to contend with bikes like the 63hp Husky FS 450 and the like in all those classes (including 250 Superbike!). Is the Singles class just basically all KTM 390s or something? I guess as the rules are written it could even be KTM 690s...

If I'm going to be as "out gunned" as everyone here seems to think, hopefully I won't even have to deal with protests. Nobody protests last place.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:32 AM   #10
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That makes the "street legal frame" part meaningless - I've seen a pic of a TZ750 with lights and a plate. I've seen street legal CR500s, YZ250s, YZ450Fs like you have, etc.
Yeah, but here's where the letter of the law and the spirit of the law diverge a bit if you get too meticulous about that. Because club racing should (I think rightfully) consider cost factors at least somewhat. And if you could make your "illegal" bike legal by purchasing an identical but road legal version of your same frame and swapping everything into it...well all you did is put that racer in the position of having to spend a lot more money to get the exact same result.

This is the one thing I liked about my previous racing org, is that classes were set up to try and find a slot for bikes that people already had, making the barrier for entry (especially in the small-bore or truly amateur classes) as low as possible in terms of machine cost.

Now if you have people trying to drive a truck through a loophole in the rules, not because they're trying to make what they have work, but by design to take advantage, well that could be a different story. Intent matters a lot and I'm generally fine with Race Direction making these calls on a case-by-case basis.
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:14 AM   #11
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If you want to do some less expensive racing, against mostly supermotos, Allen Settle (who runs Little 99, the kart track in Stockton) does a race series that's all on kart tracks - this year it was at Stockton, Dixon, and Atwater, he's hoping to do a Sears Point kart track day too next year. https://www.facebook.com/groups/808409809310089/ has info. Of course, you'll be racing against 450s there.
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Old 08-17-2018, 01:15 PM   #12
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Typically the singles class is myself (yz450), Yuri on his Kramer KTM 690, Fitzy on his Honda NSF250R, and Norm on his KTM 690. Round 1 this year there was a guy tearing it up on a Husaberg sumo and some other guys drop in for a round here and there. For some reason people seldom run their KTM390 in singles, not sure why.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:57 PM   #13
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My DRZ400sm is very competitive in 250sb novice and capable of winning that class and my motor is bone stock (just pipe and carb). My wife trophied several times in f3 and f40 lightweight on it as well....(novice).
The Ninjas have a slight advantage on the long straights because of less wind drag and higher revving motors...need to really tuck to keep up with them on the straights!
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Was the DR350 factory plated, or just a dirtbike that was frequently plated? I suspect it has to be the former to count (but who knows).

I wouldn't expect a WR450 to count as able to be registered either, they were never factory plated.
The rules where written back when grids where populated with "grey market" imported bikes...The rules State bikes that where sold for street use- The WR has been sold in Legal street usable form in many markets around the world AND can be chosen to run a license plate in many states around the US AND california
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:18 PM   #15
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The rules where written back when grids where populated with "grey market" imported bikes...The rules State bikes that where sold for street use- The WR has been sold in Legal street usable form in many markets around the world AND can be chosen to run a license plate in many states around the US AND california
There are plated YZs running around as well. There's a plated YZ250 (2 stroke) on CL right now.

In California they aren't exactly supposed to be plated, although I have 2 plated WR450s.
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