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Old 05-23-2014, 07:24 AM   #46
IAmA M0t0r Ridεr
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Taking a peek is not the same as passing, not even the same as going side by side as the car you plan to pass. Means just doing enough so you can see for yourself. It minimizes exposure, actually.

Read my post again, maybe you'll get it this time?
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:58 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by IAmA M0t0r Ridεr View Post
Taking a peek is not the same as passing, not even the same as going side by side as the car you plan to pass. Means just doing enough so you can see for yourself. It minimizes exposure, actually.

Read my post again, maybe you'll get it this time?
I got it the first time. 1Rider is about the safest things to do. You are still trusting someone else's judgement to "take a peek". There is no need for that. When you can see, you can see. "Don't trust drivers to make your riding decisions", is the advice of many of us on barf. And I am reinforcing that, again.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:51 AM   #48
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I recently read about a crash where one lane-splitter rear-ended another when the lead rider had to take evasive action. The need for adequate following distance and keen awareness beyond the vehicle immediately ahead applies equally when splitting.

Other than the 40mph limit, I follow rules similar to yours when splitting. I want an open corridor ahead of me, and I don't trust another rider close behind me.
If traffic on a multi-lane highway is moving, don't lane share, just stay in the center of a traffic lane!

I don't drive on crowded freeways often these days, but when I do, if it's in California, I'm happy to plod along at 30 miles an hour with the cars and trucks.
If traffic slows down below that, I'll work my way through traffic by lane splitting for short periods of time, remaining in the traffic lanes the rest of the time. I don't want to be constantly watching my mirrors for people who like to split at more than 10mph above the flow.
The only time I'll split for longer stretches, is when traffic is stop-go-stop, or completely gridlocked.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:13 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by IAmA M0t0r Ridεr View Post
Taking a peek is not the same as passing, not even the same as going side by side as the car you plan to pass. Means just doing enough so you can see for yourself. It minimizes exposure, actually.

Read my post again, maybe you'll get it this time?
I understand where, Motor Rider is coming from. This isn't just a Brazil or Latin America thing. I've ridden with riders from Europe who do the same thing, although I didn't know what they were doing at the time.
And many of the youtube videos of group rides in Europe show this behavior; one rider makes the pass at a time, applying left turn signal at the start of the pass, then right turn signal at the end of the pass, at which point the next rider will start his pass, with the same signaling protocol.
As long as everyone is sure about what's going on ahead, it should be a safe way to manage group passes.
Trusting other road users who signal if its safe to pass isn't a new thing.
When I was a little kid back in the 1950's on vacation with my parents, we'd sometimes pass a truck in our Ford station wagon. I once asked my dad how he knew it was safe to pass (I really was thinking about that kind of thing at 7 years old!), and my father told me that the truck drivers signaled with their tail lights that the road ahead was clear.
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:39 PM   #50
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I always assume that the possible oncoming vehicle might be someone on a bike at excessive speed which at times leads to no passing on my part when others might attempt the pass.
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:56 PM   #51
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I always assume that the possible oncoming vehicle might be someone on a bike at excessive speed which at times leads to no passing on my part when others might attempt the pass.
That episode actually played out for me yesterday. A long sweeping right-hander, and I was stuck behind a slow construction vehicle. As I was considering a pass, the equivalent of a double yellow notwithstanding, I saw a bike coming in the opposite direction. The guy was RAILING around twice the speed limit. I'm glad I did not make the hasty decision to attempt a pass just moments earlier. But I was considering it.

Good conservative rule of thumb.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:00 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Carlo View Post
I understand where, Motor Rider is coming from. This isn't just a Brazil or Latin America thing. I've ridden with riders from Europe who do the same thing, although I didn't know what they were doing at the time.
And many of the youtube videos of group rides in Europe show this behavior; one rider makes the pass at a time, applying left turn signal at the start of the pass, then right turn signal at the end of the pass, at which point the next rider will start his pass, with the same signaling protocol.
As long as everyone is sure about what's going on ahead, it should be a safe way to manage group passes.
Trusting other road users who signal if its safe to pass isn't a new thing.
When I was a little kid back in the 1950's on vacation with my parents, we'd sometimes pass a truck in our Ford station wagon. I once asked my dad how he knew it was safe to pass (I really was thinking about that kind of thing at 7 years old!), and my father told me that the truck drivers signaled with their tail lights that the road ahead was clear.
Exactly.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:18 PM   #53
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As long as everyone is sure about what's going on ahead, it should be a safe way to manage group passes.
Here's the problem, Carlo, and why I maintain emphatically...
Pass only when you can see WITH YOUR OWN EYES that you have enough road to complete it safely.
You don't know what the signaling rider sees, nor do you have reason to trust his judgment, nor do you have reason to believe you share his tolerance for risk when passing.


Maybe you have a riding buddy you've shared so many road miles with that you trust him implicitly in every respect--the kind of guy you would confidently go into combat with. That's a great kind of relationship to have with a riding companion, and I wouldn't argue with your choice to let him make passing decisions for you (and you for him).

But let's say instead that you're in a random group of riders you met up with, via a web forum, at the Frostbite Falls Cafe. Before heading out, the self-appointed leader asks, "Does everyone understand the passing signal protocol?" All nod and mumble affirmatively, and off you go. Now, as you're approaching a blind right curve, the rider immediately ahead completes a pass and gives the OK signal for you to pass too. Do you trust your life to him?

That's what you're recommending when you say "it should be a safe way to manage group passes." Maybe it is for you and your buddy, but not for the random group.

I want to make absolutely certain that everyone who happens upon this thread understands the 1Rider recommendation as I stated it above.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:22 PM   #54
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If anyone wants to discuss group passing protocols, please take it to General. Further discussion in 1Rider will be deleted.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:24 AM   #55
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I was going to edit my post after recieving a respectful PM from another user pointing out that my comment isn't appropriate in this discussion.

I failed to make it clear that even with an agreed upon signalling protocol, among trusted riders, common sense, and one's own senses are paramount.
I've got a dozen or so friends with whom I've ridden for many years, and covered many miles. I'd trust them all with my life, but If one of them should signal "follow me" on a pass which I wasn't certain of (hasn't happened, hence, my trust) I wouldn't do it.

"My Bad"

I'll leave at that.


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Originally Posted by DataDan View Post
Here's the problem, Carlo, and why I maintain emphatically...
Pass only when you can see WITH YOUR OWN EYES that you have enough road to complete it safely.
You don't know what the signaling rider sees, nor do you have reason to trust his judgment, nor do you have reason to believe you share his tolerance for risk when passing.


Maybe you have a riding buddy you've shared so many road miles with that you trust him implicitly in every respect--the kind of guy you would confidently go into combat with. That's a great kind of relationship to have with a riding companion, and I wouldn't argue with your choice to let him make passing decisions for you (and you for him).

But let's say instead that you're in a random group of riders you met up with, via a web forum, at the Frostbite Falls Cafe. Before heading out, the self-appointed leader asks, "Does everyone understand the passing signal protocol?" All nod and mumble affirmatively, and off you go. Now, as you're approaching a blind right curve, the rider immediately ahead completes a pass and gives the OK signal for you to pass too. Do you trust your life to him?

That's what you're recommending when you say "it should be a safe way to manage group passes." Maybe it is for you and your buddy, but not for the random group.

I want to make absolutely certain that everyone who happens upon this thread understands the 1Rider recommendation as I stated it above.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:03 PM   #56
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You're out for a ride on one of California's best roads, South Grade Road--the "front side"--up Palomar Mountain. Immediately after turning from SR-76, you decide to use the initial straight to get past those dweebs in cars ahead of you so they won't douse your buzz.

Would this be a good place to pass?



Yeah, probably not.
"As the motorcyclist was coming up on a 2004 Toyota Corolla...he attempted to pass the vehicle over the double yellow line. He failed to realize that the vehicle was turning left into Oak Knoll campground. This caused the motorcyclist to collide into the left side of the Toyota Corolla."
The "passer vs. passee" crash is surprisingly common, but it's easy to avoid.
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Old 06-03-2014, 04:50 PM   #57
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THREE MORE passer vs. passee crashes

#1. Saturday May 24. On Angeles Forest Highway in Los Angeles County, a 64yo Ducati rider was killed when he attempted to pass a Toyota as it turned left onto Upper Big Tujunga Canyon:




#2. Sunday June 1. In Taunton, Massachussets, a 25yo woman suffered a "significant leg injury" (sometimes code for "amputation" in motorcycle news stories) when she attempted to pass a car as it turned left at this intersection :




#3. Monday June 2. A 31yo Ducati rider in upstate New York suffered injuries serious enough to earn a helicopter ride after crashing when he attempted to pass a garbage truck as it turned left at this intersection:

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Last edited by DataDan; 06-04-2014 at 06:39 AM.. Reason: corrected date, spelling
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