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Old 09-23-2008, 11:20 PM   #16
reckon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet City View Post
Sorry for not being "clearer."

The tank didn't need painting, so I painted the fairings using the SEM, but only cleared the red,silver and white so the black matched the matte finish of the tank.
very nice work, thank you for the pics.

good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Jet City View Post


I shot this in my garage with colors I chose right out of the Dupont paint chip catalog and had the local jobber put them in aerosol cans for me. The job turned out flawlessly and you couldn't tell that I didn't use a gun. Over a year of racing later it still looked good w/no fading. Why? because it's the same paint!
and THANK YOU for the help there

(still trying to figure the maiden biker fest thingy tho )
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Last edited by reckon; 09-23-2008 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 09-24-2008, 07:42 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jet City View Post
Sorry for not being "clearer."

The tank didn't need painting, so I painted the fairings using the SEM, but only cleared the red,silver and white so the black matched the matte finish of the tank.
got it now, i think thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by reckon View Post
you asked
indeed i did i figure the more i read up on it the more likely i won't sound like a total idiot when i go to the i read herb martinez's book on striping, a good overview with some nice detail. i've just been chicken about going and getting the basics.

i'm probably never going to go for the expensive rattle cans, i change my mind too often as to the color scheme i want. cheapass krylon etc etc work fine for me since i'm doing it over in a few months anyway and it's a naked bike so just the tank to deal with. however, let's say i have a spray-bombed tank that i want to use high quality paint on as you've described above. do i have to strip it to bare metal? what about going over a factory painted part with no dents etc, just don't like the color scheme?

interesting about the flat clear. could one put the D-iso hardened urethane clear down, then once cured completely, but a less durable flat clear over that?
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Love that subway tile backsplash, auntie

Last edited by auntiebling; 09-24-2008 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:29 PM   #18
reckon
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Originally Posted by auntiebling View Post
got it now, i think thanks



indeed i did i figure the more i read up on it the more likely i won't sound like a total idiot when i go to the i read herb martinez's book on striping, a good overview with some nice detail. i've just been chicken about going and getting the basics.

i'm probably never going to go for the expensive rattle cans, i change my mind too often as to the color scheme i want. cheapass krylon etc etc work fine for me since i'm doing it over in a few months anyway and it's a naked bike so just the tank to deal with. however, let's say i have a spray-bombed tank that i want to use high quality paint on as you've described above. do i have to strip it to bare metal? what about going over a factory painted part with no dents etc, just don't like the color scheme?

Unfortunately, yes. putting quality over crap, is like building a house out of teak and redwood, with a paper mache' foundation,..once the crap paint fails, everything that's on top of it goes too.

tanks are small, it'll take 2 hours TOPS to strip-sand it, and if you use a rotary sander and 100 grit flap discs, it'll take 20 minutes

interesting about the flat clear. could one put the D-iso hardened urethane clear down, then once cured completely, put a less durable flat clear over that?
I never thought of that, but that's a GREAT idea!
(you'd have to scuff the clear with 800, or a grey scotchbrite first,)
you're already thinking like a painter
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:05 AM   #19
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Hey Reckon,

Do you have any tips for painting engines?
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:24 PM   #20
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Hey Reckon,

Do you have any tips for painting engines?
for liquid cooled motorcycle engines, pretty much any type of "engine enamel" works well, with stuff from the above companies, like evercoat, or smart, or SEM costing more, and working better and lasting longer.
for the BARRELS of an air cooled motorcycle you'll need a high temp (over 400 degrees) paint, so read the labels carefully before you buy. you can also use super high heat paint, like for header pipes, but you'll find the color selection pretty limited.
also keep in mind that ANY coating will retain heat to some degree so keep that in mind when running the bike after painting, you may notice it's running hotter than it used to,...this may affect nothing, or it could be a problem on a bike that ALREADY runs hot.

TIPS:
CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN:
it just can't be too clean, so get some degreaser(janitor in a drum), or dawn detergent, and wash and scrub till you think it's just ridiculous, and then 10 more minutes
for bare aluminum or steel use an etching solution (metal prep=phosphoric acid concentrate) after the washing/degreasing and follow the directions on the bottle to the letter for best results,....typically you don't use primer on engines, just paint right over the etched/prepared surface.
for motors that are painted, follow the cleaning steps, then scuff with a red scotchbrite pad till it's dull all over (no shiny spots) and paint.

KEEP IT THIN:
with engine paint, less is actually less and the thinner the coating of enamel is, the longer it will last (no I'm not kidding), so shoot for hiding and as SOON as you can't see whats underneath STOP SHOOTING,...then wait a few hours, and look at it in full sunlight to see if you missed any spots, or it's TOO thin in places, then just touch up those spots, and let the paint cure for 2 or more days BEFORE YOU START IT ,then just run the motor for 15 minutes or till it's at running temp and then let cool completely(3-4 hours), and then go ride the crap out of it.

you can paint the CANS of an exhaust system with any of the above paints, but the header pipes need special super high heat paints following the "keep it thin" mantra and several heat-cool down cycles or baking in an oven first to get any kind of lasting results, and even then the coating fails sometimes, which is why I recommend powder coating for header pipes with the newer ceramic composite powder coats.

I've seen sportbike motors painted with the above steps with just duplicolor high temp engine enamel (not the best, but ok) last for years without needing to be re-painted IF they got it clean, didn't heat blister the paint by running the motor too soon, and kept the coating thin.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:47 PM   #21
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Red scotchbrite, got it. I've already been degreasing like a mofo. Its a prepainted motor, so no bare metal anywhere. I've gone over lots of it with a wire wheel brush, getting out all the icky stuff. Sounds like I should be good to go
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So in the end if you've always believed, then you better give it all when you give it to me.
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:19 AM   #22
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To wetsand or not to wetsand

Hi Joe,

My fairings are cracked and scuffed and I plan to fix and repaint. I will definitely be using your write up for the process, so Thanks for taking the time to do that!

Also I had one question. I've read a number of other articles on painting and the majority of them say to wetsand the clear before buffing. Yours is one of the few that didn't mention anything about wetsanding the clear coat. Is this something that needs to be done, or should I not worry about it?

Thanks
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:44 PM   #23
reckon
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Originally Posted by Double J View Post
Hi Joe,

My fairings are cracked and scuffed and I plan to fix and repaint. I will definitely be using your write up for the process, so Thanks for taking the time to do that!

Also I had one question. I've read a number of other articles on painting and the majority of them say to wetsand the clear before buffing. Yours is one of the few that didn't mention anything about wetsanding the clear coat. Is this something that needs to be done, or should I not worry about it?

Thanks
the QUICKEST way for a new painter to completely screw up a brand new paint job, is to try and wetsand and polish it, which is why I left out the other 4,500 word write up on wetsanding and polishing

there is lots of info on wetsanding and polishing on teh internetz, and probably several you tube step by step how to's as well, if you do a couple of searches.

generally you try and shoot so the last coat of clear is the "finish coat", and try to get it as wet and glossy as possible, but some people don't feel the need to practice, and they feel they can just sand out all the defects after and polish it, where as I lean toward the "if you shoot it right, you wont need to wetsand and polish" school, which is why I kept harping on that practice panel in the above write up over and over and over, as I really feel this is what separates the noob, from the advanced intermediate, and professional)
if you DO get peel (rare with these paints), or a run, I ALWAYS would suggest that you sand out the defects with 600 grit wet, then scuff the rest of the panel with a GREY scotchbrite pad and then re-shoot just the clear on that panel, rather than try and sand the run or peel down and then polish, it's just less work, you get a nicer end result, and no chances of burning through the clear with the buffer (INCREDIBLY easy on a motorcycle)

so I would suggest ONLY spot wetsanding any specks(called "nibs")or tiny runs or sags with 1200, then 1500, then 2000, and then polish JUST the tiny 1" (or less) sanded areas using a rotary buffer and a 3" foam buffing pad (available at any finishmaster store) and some "micro-finishing compound" which is like rubbing compound, but much finer grit, that dissolves in about 2 minutes of buffing, so you pretty much CANNOT over buff and get swirl marks.
it is RIDICULOUSLY tedious to try and hand buff a sanded finish, I know it can be done, because I've seen it, but we are talking about 10-15 minutes wetsanding, and 5 minutes with the rotary buffer (no a random orbital will NOT work) compared to about 4 to 10 hours of hand rubbing with compound using "power by armstrong"

these paints cure out faster than the cheaper spray bomb stuff, so with aero-max clear you can sand and polish out defects the next day, and with the U-Pol you wait about a week.

last thing, never ever ever WAX (silicone, or carnuba) a fresh paint job for at least 45 days to give all the trapped solvent gasses a chance to escape before you seal it all up with a wax.
for something to use as "wax" while you wait the 45 days, use a "HAND GLAZE", which is essentially a silicone and carnuba free polish which will need to be re-applied every other week or so, until the 45 days elapses.

ok so, try and shoot it right, practice more (or at least SOME), and google or you tube for more detailed info on wetsanding and polishing (also known as "color sanding" or "cut & buff").

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Last edited by reckon; 10-23-2008 at 04:20 AM..
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Old 10-23-2008, 05:02 PM   #24
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Just wanted to say thanks for the fanastic write up. I'm in the middle of collecting fairings for a track set, and I will DEFINITELY be using this thread for when I attempt to paint them. Thank you!

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Old 11-11-2008, 09:37 PM   #25
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I'm in the middle/end part of painting my fiberglass track fairings. All I have left is clear coat and an extra 40 hp worth of stickers. my question is: Is there something that I should spray/use on the inside of the fairings to protect the paint from the heat?

I'm using the dupli color paint from kragen
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:13 PM   #26
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I'm in the middle/end part of painting my fiberglass track fairings. All I have left is clear coat and an extra 40 hp worth of stickers. my question is: Is there something that I should spray/use on the inside of the fairings to protect the paint from the heat?

I'm using the dupli color paint from kragen
you can coat the insides of the fairings with flat black paint, or "trim black" (it's a semi gloss) or my personal favorite: truck bed liner (dupli-color's stuff works very well here)
if additional heat protection is needed look into heat shielding for hot rods and imports (there was a thread here titled "ducati asses of fire" that listed several types)
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:56 PM   #27
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Wow. I don't know what got into you when you decided to share this information, but I sure do appreciate it. It's not often that experienced guys want to share their inside brands and tips. Super cool.

I read the entire thing straight thru and will be copying and pasting into a file, printing out and following to the letter on my test tank.

I have a question:
If you want to do multiple color pieces or some kind of designs or stripes, after putting down your base color coats, can you use tape or how do you mask off for the detail work?

Thanks,
-S
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:17 AM   #28
reckon
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Wow. I don't know what got into you when you decided to share this information, but I sure do appreciate it. It's not often that experienced guys want to share their inside brands and tips. Super cool.

I read the entire thing straight thru and will be copying and pasting into a file, printing out and following to the letter on my test tank.

I have a question:
If you want to do multiple color pieces or some kind of designs or stripes, after putting down your base color coats, can you use tape or how do you mask off for the detail work?

Thanks,
-S
thank you for the kind words, it was an effort to dispell some of the "painting myths" I was reading, and to show you really CAN paint a motorcycle with "spray cans" and get truly professional results WITHOUT using a compressor.

it also provides a "FAQ" of sorts, which I felt the subject of painting (which only comes up 27,000 times a month) needed and teh barf mods agreed and made it teh sticky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeside View Post
If you want to do multiple color pieces or some kind of designs or stripes, after putting down your base color coats, can you use tape or how do you mask off for the detail work?
that's a very good question,......

when doing multiple colors, or a scheme (repsol, yamaha "bumblebee", etc,..), you start with the lightest color as the base, if you're using the above "basecoat in a can" paints, you can mask off for the next color after only an hour or so, but with traditional spraybomb paints, you will probably have to wait at LEAST a day, maybe 2 or 3.

they make special plastic low tack masking tape (3m's blue "fine-line" is my fave) in several widths, which allows you to make smooth round corners and follow contours, I like to use the 1/4" and 1/8th" widths
I also use the 3m masking hand-roller you find at home depot for ten bucks,...it can be loaded with 12", 16" or 18" paper, and automatically places a strip of standard masking tape at the edge, so things are nice and fast, PLUS you wont get "pattern transfer bleed" which happens when you use newspaper and the ink stains the urethane paint, or bleed thru's, where the paper soaks through and sticks to the (supposedly) protected surface below.



ok, lets use a number plate for example:
on the primered fairing, shoot the white over the area where the plate will go making sure you don't have any thin spots near where the edges are going to be, don't worry about masking anything off at this point, as you'll be painting over it later.
then after the white cures, you run the fine-line tape in your pattern which in this case is a number plate, one strip going around the whole outside edge.
now take the masking paper with the tape at the edge, and stick it to the blue fine-line tape making sure you don't have any areas where it could bleed thru, the fold or cut the paper hanging off, so that it approximates the shape of the plate, and do any trimming with a razor. go all the way around so the the white plate is under the masking, then shoot the next color, and again WAIT till it's cured enough to peel (basecoat=2 hours, traditional=4 days) when peeling GO SLOW, and peel the tape back over itself so it "cuts" through the paint and leaves a clean edge.

when using a razor blade to make intricate patterns, or points, make SURE you use a SHARP single edge razor, and lightly cut JUST THE TAPE, NOT THE SURFACE, and sometimes I'll stick a clear piece of thin acrylic plastic behind the tape, and make the cut ON THE PLASTIC , then pull it up and stick it to the surface so I'm sure it won't go through and cut the paint.

so light colors first, followed by darker colors, use a flexible masking tape as the outline, and to give a clean edge when you peel it, NOTE: when doing several colors, you will always have an "edge" of raised paint where one color went over another, so the TRICK is to shoot AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE near the edge, JUST ENOUGH FOR HIDING, and then stop, or you get this big ass thick raised edge which affects how much clear you'll need to apply to cover it.
so the shooting sparsely trick is also a money saver as well as the best way to shoot several colors next to one another.

that's pretty much all ya do
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Last edited by reckon; 01-16-2009 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:20 AM   #29
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Can i paint the headers with either of these? i had these laying around...
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:55 AM   #30
reckon
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Can i paint the headers with either of these? i had these laying around...
nope.

exhaust header average temp= 800 degrees or so.
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