Net-Moto :: Community :: Racing :: :: Racing Videos Sponsor :: Contact
 Forums   Features   Trackdays   Moto Crash Incidents   Race Team   CMSP Training   Sponsors      Donate   Terms of Service 
BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum  Home   UserCP   Register   Calendar   Members   FAQ   Search  AMA

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Moto > The Garage


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2009, 11:17 AM   #31
blackoutgsxr
Veteran
 
blackoutgsxr's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 07 gsxr 600
Name: Ruben
Ready for paint.

So i just got my paint in and i have my test panel and actual pieces primer and ready for paint.

I sanded (wet) with 400 grit. Do i wash the pieces with soap and water or just wipe off the sand dust?
blackoutgsxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2009, 12:23 PM   #32
reckon
the cake is a lie
 
reckon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Motorcycles: 82 Yamaha Vision / Yamaha TZ 125cc turbocharged APS/BF speed record bike
Name: Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutgsxr View Post
So i just got my paint in and i have my test panel and actual pieces primer and ready for paint.

I sanded (wet) with 400 grit. Do i wash the pieces with soap and water or just wipe off the sand dust?
sanding dust likes to be wiped down with "PPG DX330", or you can use "3m wax and grease remover",...or just use rubbing alcohol on a lint free towel, followed by a windex (or other glass cleaner) wipe down.
I wipe the surface down with the dx330, and then a windex wipe down,...then wait a half hour and start shooting.

you realize you shoot the test panel FIRST, and maybe even several times BEFORE shooting the bike,....the idea is you "learn" on the test panel, then once you get the hang of it (you have a nice perfect shiny test panel) THEN you shoot your motorcycle,...yes?

that way if you make a mistake (and you WILL) it goes on that test piece, and NOT the bike.
__________________
Joe Loewinsohn
no longer repairing plastics due to health reasons
------------------------------------------------
"you can fix anything, you just can't fix everything"
reckon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2009, 12:36 PM   #33
blackoutgsxr
Veteran
 
blackoutgsxr's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 07 gsxr 600
Name: Ruben
Yes sir.

i have studied your teachings as closely as possible. but i am working with limited funds and an 11oz. of paint and 11oz. clear coat. I do have a test panel (fairing piece) similar to the one i need to shoot.

Can i use Goo Gone instead of rubbing alcohol?

Wish me luck.

Off topic. I am spraying in my garage and the smell fills the whole house. i leave the garage open and to vent but my son is still being exposed to 2nd hand High build primer, paint, clear coat aerosol.

Can this affect him?

Last edited by blackoutgsxr; 01-26-2009 at 12:52 PM..
blackoutgsxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2009, 12:55 PM   #34
reckon
the cake is a lie
 
reckon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Motorcycles: 82 Yamaha Vision / Yamaha TZ 125cc turbocharged APS/BF speed record bike
Name: Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutgsxr View Post
i have studied your teachings as closely as possible. but i am working with limited funds and an 11oz. of paint and 11oz. clear coat. I do have a test panel (fairing piece) similar to the one i need to shoot.

Wish me luck.

Off topic. I am spraying in my garage and the smell fills the whole house. i leave the garage open and to vent but my son is still being exposed to 2nd hand High build primer, paint, clear coat aerosol.

Can this affect him?
paint OUTSIDE,..then move the painted pieces INTO the closed up garage. (it mentions this in the above post)

and yes, you shouldn't be exposing anyone to fumes, especially someone who's brain is still growing.

do it while he's away, or at school or something, or shoot somewhere else.
__________________
Joe Loewinsohn
no longer repairing plastics due to health reasons
------------------------------------------------
"you can fix anything, you just can't fix everything"
reckon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2009, 12:57 PM   #35
blackoutgsxr
Veteran
 
blackoutgsxr's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 07 gsxr 600
Name: Ruben
Can i use Goo Gone instead of rubbing alcohol?
blackoutgsxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2009, 06:53 PM   #36
reckon
the cake is a lie
 
reckon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Motorcycles: 82 Yamaha Vision / Yamaha TZ 125cc turbocharged APS/BF speed record bike
Name: Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutgsxr View Post
Can i use Goo Gone instead of rubbing alcohol?
no. goo gone will screw up the way the paint sticks, REMEMBER this is a PORUS SURFACE (the primer) so it'll soak up ANYTHING that touches it, which is WHY you use solvents that evaporate quickly, and leave NO residue.

rubbing alcohol=.79 cents at walgreens and you probably already HAVE window cleaner.

if you fuck up this critical step, you'll get fisheyes EVERYWHERE,...so take some time and get all the sanding dust, fingerprint oils, and just airborne contaminates OFF of the surface before you try and paint over it.
__________________
Joe Loewinsohn
no longer repairing plastics due to health reasons
------------------------------------------------
"you can fix anything, you just can't fix everything"
reckon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 04:25 PM   #37
blackoutgsxr
Veteran
 
blackoutgsxr's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 07 gsxr 600
Name: Ruben
So i sprayed two coats of Base coat. See pic update here But no matter what i do little lint find it's way onto my paint.

Some blow off some stay.

Next step spray clear right over?
blackoutgsxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 04:42 PM   #38
reckon
the cake is a lie
 
reckon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Motorcycles: 82 Yamaha Vision / Yamaha TZ 125cc turbocharged APS/BF speed record bike
Name: Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutgsxr View Post
So i sprayed two coats of Base coat. See pic update here But no matter what i do little lint find it's way onto my paint.

Some blow off some stay.

Next step spray clear right over?
from the pics thats pretty good, you still have some texture (orange peel) but don't sweat it, you got good gloss and coverage, not bad for only having 11 oz of color coat.
okay, the clear step should be done AFTER that black base has cured, so you need to wait a few days (a week is better) before shooting the clear.

the reason is the black paint has solvents still trapped in the layers, and it takes some time for them to completely evaporate, the better basecoats in a can (as in above post) can be painted over in only a few hours, but that is because they have a special super fast evaporating solvent called "reducer", which is a blend of many solvents and stabilizers.

so wait a week, then shoot the clear, and then you'll need to wait a week before installing it and riding it, remembering the upper forward facing fairing will take a BEATING from bugs, rocks, bolts etc,... so the longer you wait before installing and riding, the better it will be for the total longevity of your paint job.

as far as lint goes, remember that 90% of the lint in a paint job comes from YOU, not the surrounding area, this is one of the best reasons to wear a disposable paint suit (.99 at any hardware store) when you paint, because it not only keeps the paint off of YOU, it also keeps YOU off of the paint.
also note that I have worked in paint booths that had a half a million dollar "downdraft particle abatement systems++" in them, and STILL you'd get a few specks(called "NIBS") in the job, so not much you can do except wear a suit, and a hat(head sock is better), paint mid morning, OUTSIDE, with the ground wetted down, and then move the parts INSIDE to a closed up garage. you'll get less nibs that way than any other way, save a 25,000cfm downdraft booth

good work so far.

(++this is basically a "river" of running water under the open floor grates, and the air is drawn down over the car onto the "river")
__________________
Joe Loewinsohn
no longer repairing plastics due to health reasons
------------------------------------------------
"you can fix anything, you just can't fix everything"

Last edited by reckon; 01-27-2009 at 04:56 PM..
reckon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 05:28 PM   #39
blackoutgsxr
Veteran
 
blackoutgsxr's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 07 gsxr 600
Name: Ruben
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckon View Post
from the pics thats pretty good, you still have some texture (orange peel) but don't sweat it, you got good gloss and coverage, not bad for only having 11 oz of color coat.
okay, the clear step should be done AFTER that black base has cured, so you need to wait a few days (a week is better) before shooting the clear.

the reason is the black paint has solvents still trapped in the layers, and it takes some time for them to completely evaporate, the better basecoats in a can (as in above post) can be painted over in only a few hours, but that is because they have a special super fast evaporating solvent called "reducer", which is a blend of many solvents and stabilizers.
I did use Color Rite OEM paint. I went to Lowes paint but they said the minimum for a color match would be a pint. And that was too much money and paint.

Even though i used Color Rite. i have to wait a week?

Thanks for your help.
blackoutgsxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 08:38 PM   #40
reckon
the cake is a lie
 
reckon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Motorcycles: 82 Yamaha Vision / Yamaha TZ 125cc turbocharged APS/BF speed record bike
Name: Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutgsxr View Post
I did use Color Rite OEM paint. I went to Lowes paint but they said the minimum for a color match would be a pint. And that was too much money and paint.

Even though i used Color Rite. i have to wait a week?

Thanks for your help.
yup

ESPECIALLY with the colder weather and the high humidity.

a GOOD painter is JUST like a GOOD photographer, they are CONSTANTLY aware of the surrounding conditions: temp, humidity, type of paint, etc,....

so yes, with the high humidity, short day length, and the low ambient temps, I would wait at least a week before top coating with clear, because NOTHING bad will happen if you wait, but LOTS of bad things COULD happen if you don't.
__________________
Joe Loewinsohn
no longer repairing plastics due to health reasons
------------------------------------------------
"you can fix anything, you just can't fix everything"
reckon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 09:47 PM   #41
freeside
Newbie
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 2001 KTM Duke 2, 1993 Suzuki VX800, 1973 Yamaha RT3, 2008 Suzuki V-Strom
Name:
painting aluminum

Reckon,

Most of the pieces that I need to paint right now are aluminum, and mostly cast.
I've got the aluminum prep of the parts down:
1- glass bead blast
2- scrub out very thoroughly with soapy water / or boil the part if it's an engine case
3- Submerge in 140 degree alumiprep solution. Or scrub out with alumiprep if I can't submerse the part.

Now I've got a spanking clean aluminum part, such as final drive casing, top triple clamp etc (these are the parts that I'm not anodizing).

I've been doing massive research on painting aluminum and still am having a hard time figuring out if I can get decent results that last, using an epoxy primer with urethane topcoat. (I haven't dropped the massive money yet for the high end products pre-treatment / multi-stage primer products).

I've read up on MILSPEC aircraft aluminum treatments and they are more than a 5 step process using expensive treatments.

Any suggestions on a quality method of painting aluminum that won't break the bank?

I'll be doing my engine cases soon and like you said in your previous post, I don't want a many layer, thick coating on the engine. Figured I could get away with a similar quick solution on my other parts...

Please advise! Thanks for taking the time with all your recent posts BTW.
cheers,
-Stephen
freeside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 07:49 AM   #42
reckon
the cake is a lie
 
reckon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Motorcycles: 82 Yamaha Vision / Yamaha TZ 125cc turbocharged APS/BF speed record bike
Name: Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeside View Post
Reckon,

Most of the pieces that I need to paint right now are aluminum, and mostly cast.
I've got the aluminum prep of the parts down:
1- glass bead blast
2- scrub out very thoroughly with soapy water / or boil the part if it's an engine case
3- Submerge in 140 degree alumiprep solution. Or scrub out with alumiprep if I can't submerse the part.

Now I've got a spanking clean aluminum part, such as final drive casing, top triple clamp etc (these are the parts that I'm not anodizing).

I've been doing massive research on painting aluminum and still am having a hard time figuring out if I can get decent results that last, using an epoxy primer with urethane topcoat. (I haven't dropped the massive money yet for the high end products pre-treatment / multi-stage primer products).

I've read up on MILSPEC aircraft aluminum treatments and they are more than a 5 step process using expensive treatments.

Any suggestions on a quality method of painting aluminum that won't break the bank?

I'll be doing my engine cases soon and like you said in your previous post, I don't want a many layer, thick coating on the engine. Figured I could get away with a similar quick solution on my other parts...

Please advise! Thanks for taking the time with all your recent posts BTW.
cheers,
-Stephen
first off,...I'd suggest powder coating (that's the easiest way out),......

ok but if you have your heart set on painting the bare aluminum, but you are over thinking it (hey! I do that too!)
the thing to keep in mind when painting aluminum, is that corrosion starts in MINUTES after cleaning, so you need to get it clean(MEK, thinner), then QUICKLY use a phosphoric acid solution (standard "metal prep"@ any hardware store) to impede corrosion, and to facilitate the epoxy sticking, then shoot the epoxy and keep it THIN.

TIP: after the metal prep dries, it'll lave a powdery substance behind,....... that's ZINC PHOSPHATE, and you WANT that, but not so much that the epoxy won't absorb into the powder, so take a clean dry paper towel, and spray a SMALL amount of windex on the towel (NOT the surface), just to make it slightly damp, and gently wipe the paint-able surfaces down to remove 50% of the powdery zinc phosphate,.....then let it all dry out for several hours, then shoot the epoxy (or acid etch primer, for the compressor-less version)

then shoot your color, and clearcoats, or single stage, engine enamel, etc,.....just again KEEP IT THIN, as the thicker the coating gets, the more easily it'll chip later on.

then let everything cure out for a few days, and install and run.

but again, the EASIEST way, is just to drop it off at the powder coaters.
__________________
Joe Loewinsohn
no longer repairing plastics due to health reasons
------------------------------------------------
"you can fix anything, you just can't fix everything"

Last edited by reckon; 02-04-2009 at 08:15 AM..
reckon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 03:32 PM   #43
blackoutgsxr
Veteran
 
blackoutgsxr's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 07 gsxr 600
Name: Ruben
Reckon,
So i finished a piece that had orange peel. And i wasn't satisfied so i knocked down the clear with 2000 Grit wet. I then wanted to add another coat of paint because i saw that i damaged the base coat.

So i scuffed the paint with 1000 grit and shot a coat of base. And the result was the paint seemed to have risen and cracked almost like skin peeling.

What went wrong? (see pictures)
Click image for larger version

Name:	P2180002.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	39.1 KB
ID:	296055

Click image for larger version

Name:	P2180003.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	33.6 KB
ID:	296056

Click image for larger version

Name:	P2180004.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	24.9 KB
ID:	296057
blackoutgsxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 07:29 PM   #44
reckon
the cake is a lie
 
reckon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Motorcycles: 82 Yamaha Vision / Yamaha TZ 125cc turbocharged APS/BF speed record bike
Name: Joe
that's called "lifting"and it means the previous coat WAS NOT CURED YET,...so the solvents in the newer paint actually reactivate the still soft primer and basecoats and the result is the top coat wrinkles.

it also means the primer used was not the best quality, because good quality $15 a can primer will NOT do that, even if you push it.

let it sit for a couple of weeks, THEN scuff it really well all over with 400 wet, get ALL that "crackle" pattern OFF, and yes you will probably end up sanding down to bare plastic to do that,.....then you basically start over: prime, sand, then shoot the first few coats of base LIGHTLY: shoot a mist coat and let it dry for a half hour, then shoot another mist coat,..wait another half hour then shoot a decent coat of base, and pray it doesn't lift again,...then I'd wait a full week before topping with clear,...and obviously you need to wait a MONTH at least (45 days is better) ESPECIALLY in this cold moist weather before sanding and polishing OR re-shooting any part of the job,......remember GOOD painters are CONSTANTLY aware of environmental changes, and adjust the plan accordingly.

when you use standard rattlecan paints (like color rite, or dupli-color) what you save in cash, you certainly lose in time: it just takes 30 to 45 days for STANDARD rattle can paint to cure enough to work with,....the high quality stuff in the above post can be re-shot or polished out the next day.

live and learn,.....I've done the exact same thing before, and got the exact same result,........it happens when you rush, and try to do this on the cheap.
__________________
Joe Loewinsohn
no longer repairing plastics due to health reasons
------------------------------------------------
"you can fix anything, you just can't fix everything"
reckon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2009, 02:42 PM   #45
corrupt
meat cleaver
 
corrupt's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East and North
Motorcycles: arr-six
Name: B
I read the first section, saw it was quality, and bookmarked it for later.

Thanks very much.
__________________
Never water another man's whiskey.
corrupt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.