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Old 04-25-2017, 10:03 AM   #1
MegaMatt
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Highside at Thunderhill West 4/23/17

Moved from B+ to A group right before lunch. Didn't take a break between sessions. High sided on turn 10. I'm thinking I accidentally locked the rear brakes on entry...

Was riding a 2010 ZX6R. Pretty sure the bike is totaled.

Concussion and broken collar bone.

https://youtu.be/MA-5dHwI3zI


youtu.be/MA-5dHwI3zI

Last edited by insyder; 04-27-2017 at 07:56 AM.. Reason: Fixed YT code
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:14 AM   #2
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Describe the events that led up to the crash. Were you braking with the front brake? Where? Did the crash occur before you turned in, during the turn in, or after you had turned and were into the throttle? How fast were you going?

That particular corner is what I call a "throw away corner". Nobody goes through it fast and it's a waste of time to try to. You just slow down and get it over with.
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:59 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
Describe the events that led up to the crash. Were you braking with the front brake? Where? Did the crash occur before you turned in, during the turn in, or after you had turned and were into the throttle? How fast were you going?

That particular corner is what I call a "throw away corner". Nobody goes through it fast and it's a waste of time to try to. You just slow down and get it over with.
^^This. the old adage of "slow down to go fast" pays off here. This and turn 5E are both throw away corners. It is amazing how many blow 5E and go dirt riding!
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:24 AM   #4
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Looking at the vid, I'm thinking you may have been a little bit too much into the throttle for that corner while still leaned over a lot. Also could be cold tire crash.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:36 AM   #5
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Weird crash. Hard to tell with all the wind noise, but I didn't sound like you got back into the throttle. If you were turning in on the rear brake, I guess locking up the rear is a plausible theory.

Fun video, thanks for sharing. I was rooting for you so hard when the EMT was attempting to establish if you were alert and oriented. I was like "come on, say Willows, SAY WILLOWS!".
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:25 PM   #6
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That particular corner is what I call a "throw away corner". Nobody goes through it fast and it's a waste of time to try to. You just slow down and get it over with.
Depends a lot on the bike, right? I know I was trying to carry as much speed through there as possible, even going well over the white lines at exit, because every little bit of corner exit speed helps down the long straight. If you've got gobs of power on tap, then yeah, just get the bike pointed in the correct direction ASAP and crack open the throttle...
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Old 04-25-2017, 02:31 PM   #7
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Depends a lot on the bike, right? I know I was trying to carry as much speed through there as possible, even going well over the white lines at exit, because every little bit of corner exit speed helps down the long straight. If you've got gobs of power on tap, then yeah, just get the bike pointed in the correct direction ASAP and crack open the throttle...
I think of it another way.

More people crash going fast in a slow corner than going fast in a fast corner.

Fast corners are where you want to go fast. Corners like T15 at Thill are important to get that last tiny bit of speed to help on the straight. There's no way you can get that kind of help at T10 on the west side. It's a really slow corner. On a 250, yeah, it gives you that drive for the first ten feet. But it is really a slow corner.
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:25 PM   #8
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Cant type much with one hand, but I will say that it was probably a mistake trying to follow a faster rider on a new line at a higher speed than I'm used to through that corner. I normally take a wider line and enter a bit slower. You can kind of see it at the beginning of the clip.
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Old 04-25-2017, 05:13 PM   #9
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Cant type much with one hand, but I will say that it was probably a mistake trying to follow a faster rider on a new line at a higher speed than I'm used to through that corner.

That's what I was thinking. The onboard cameras have gotten so much better, that video (-high side) really makes me want to do a track day!
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:43 PM   #10
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Looking at it again, you look like you crashed right at point of max lean. I'm going for a bit of excitement leading to you carrying a bit too much throttle at that point.
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:37 PM   #11
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i cant hear any throttle addition right before the crash.

were u using the rear brake?

unexpected corner entry rear slides are tough. there are very few ways to safely increase rear grip at that time and still make the corner. the main two are hang off more and decrease the front brake. unfortunately it looks like u stiffened up and hung off less, essentially pulling the bike down with u.
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:36 AM   #12
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What I saw there was the OP being passed by a faster rider and deciding to step up his pace immediately. Including braking less to carry more speed. It didn't work.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:51 PM   #13
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Would (non-IMU based) TC like the one in the latest ZX6R/R6/DucSS have prevented this?
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:21 PM   #14
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I don't believe so. He would need to be sliding due to throttle and also maintain positive throttle through the corner. The TC systems don't add throttle on their own.
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:17 PM   #15
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for the experts: why did this scenario translate into a highside vs a lowside?
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