Net-Moto :: Community :: Racing :: :: Racing Videos Sponsor :: Contact
 Forums   Features   Trackdays   Moto Crash Incidents   Race Team   CMSP Training   Sponsors      Donate   Terms of Service 
BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum  Home   UserCP   Register   Calendar   Members   FAQ   Search  AMA

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Moto > General


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2018, 09:05 AM   #496
RVFRick
Veteran
 
RVFRick's Avatar
 
1% Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Palo Alto
Motorcycles: '90 NC27, '94 MC28, '82 C70. Projects: '94 & 95 NC35s, '81 C70.
Name: Rick
Session 54: Front wheel stumble

Midweek I stopped by the cave after work to complete the addition of new rubber on the RVF.

I double checked the wheel arrow was pointed in the direction of rotation then fitted the lightly greased longer spacer against the right wheel bearing and the shorter spacer on the left. For the most part they styed put when I slid the wheel between the forks. Maybe 1/2" of clearance. I then inserted the greased axle thru the left fork, wheel and out the farside right fork. A few hits gentle taps with a dead blow mallet until the axle slid to a stop.

Next, hand tightened axle nut followed by a torque wrench fitted with a 7/8" socket (Iím finding my Kirkland socket is limited to the smaller metric sizes). Click went the wrench. Click again to double check. Wheel check - rotates easily and no lateral movement. Done.

Next tightened the 4 fork clamping bolts to spec. Four clicks and a recheck. Done. So far so good.

Brake calipers are last. I split the left caliper pads over the brake disc and wedged it into position. With tapped caliper holes aligned to the fork thru holes the I hand tightened the two M8x25 flanged bolts. Repeated with the right caliper.

Torque wrench dialed to 31Nm (24 ft-lbs) and 12mm socket onto the bolts, I tightened the left caliper's bolts. First 2 clicks and done. Double checking I tightened them again. A tiny bit of additional movement but both clicked mostly right away. Moved to the right side caliper and repeated. The wrench clicked fine on first bolt. The second bolt didn't feel as solid and seemed to turn further than expected but finally clicked. Hmm. Going back to the 1st bolt I torqued and got maybe an 1/8th turn before I got the confirming click. Not the expected immediate click. Moving to double check the 2nd it turned, and turned and turned maybe 1/2 a revolution before it clicked again. Uh oh, were the caliper threads puling out? The tactile feedback was not reassuring.

In denial, I checked again - getting a further half turn. Something was not right. I undid both bolts and inspected. No thread chips or metal was visible. I pulled the caliper off and saw intact internal threads. What gives?

Looking more closely at the bolts I saw that the threads looked malformed. Yup, the bolts were clearly yielding and necked down. I tried to jigsaw the two bolts' threads against each other and they wouldn't puzzle together. They were toast - tightened beyond their elastic limits and permanently stretched. The culprit could be a non-calibrated torque wrench or perhaps the a previous mechanicís doing. If I get motivated I will verify the torque wrench with weights and a bench vise.

Lucky to have found this out in the garage than on the road. Would a hired mechanic have caught this or clicked and moved on? The other silver lining is fasteners are a much easier fix than Helicoils.

Bat cave secured, I scurried over to OSH, rummaged thru the fastener bins and found potential replacements: M8 (8mm diameter across the threads), 1.25mm pitch (distance from thread crest-to-crest. BTW considered "coarse" for an M8), and 25mm in length. The simpler designation is "M8 x 25mm, coarse". These were clear zinc plated like the OEM ones.

The next descriptor is grade. Bolts come in different tensile strengths for different applications. JIS Japanese Industry Standard has Grade 10.9 JIS. $1.56 each. I learned there is a higher 12.9 grade but OSH only had 10.9 so I bought them. Anyone know if grade 10.9 proper? :|

Last but not least, as far as parts go turn signals arrived from 4 week trip from China. $8 shipped. I consolidated a Tyga order with Anthony to a get a light weight front fairing stay. Mine is a bit buggered.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 Bolt stretch 1.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	70.1 KB
ID:	511457   Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 Bolt stretch 2.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	75.4 KB
ID:	511458   Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 Torque specs.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	64.6 KB
ID:	511459   Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 Bolt checker.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	48.3 KB
ID:	511460   Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 OSH 0.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	169.1 KB
ID:	511461  

Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 Bolt OSH 1.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	135.6 KB
ID:	511462   Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 Bolt OSH 2.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	166.0 KB
ID:	511463   Click image for larger version

Name:	S54 Turn signals.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	181.1 KB
ID:	511464  
RVFRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2018, 11:27 AM   #497
Whammy
Veteran of Road Racing
 
Whammy's Avatar
 
AMA #3283620
Contributor +

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost again
Motorcycles: 2016 Aprilia Dorsoduro 750
Name:
More trips to the "cave" are needed
Whammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2018, 08:01 PM   #498
RVFRick
Veteran
 
RVFRick's Avatar
 
1% Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Palo Alto
Motorcycles: '90 NC27, '94 MC28, '82 C70. Projects: '94 & 95 NC35s, '81 C70.
Name: Rick
The OSH bolts worked fine. I torqued them then checked again. The wrench clicked immediately without any additional rotation of the bolts. Went back to the other left side caliper which tested okay one week ago and they also passed. Wheels done...tank is next.

Edit: Forgot to mention I found a handy online torque calculator to give an estimate if the grade 10.9 bolts could withstand the Haynes manual's specification of 31Nm.

https://www.fastenal.com/en/83/torque-calculator.

Selecting Metric > 8mm > coarse > grade 10.9 returns a result of 36.5Nm which is in nominal agreement with the Hayne's manual.

Last edited by RVFRick; 08-06-2018 at 08:09 PM.. Reason: Add torque spec calculator
RVFRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2018, 06:47 AM   #499
RVFRick
Veteran
 
RVFRick's Avatar
 
1% Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Palo Alto
Motorcycles: '90 NC27, '94 MC28, '82 C70. Projects: '94 & 95 NC35s, '81 C70.
Name: Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by apf View Post
And yes, turn handle bars once front is lifted (don't lift the front with the rear still on the ground!)

Finally, loosen all the axle nuts while the bike is still on the ground and on the Baxley. When tightening, go hand-tight while bike is lifted, then put it back on the ground, in a chock and torque to spec.
APF's suggestions make more sense now. Too difficult to loosen wheel fasteners of NSR on stands.

I plan to add a breaker bar (PVC pipe good enough?), 6-point, 22mm, 1/2" driver socket and socket adapters to my tool set this weekend.
RVFRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2018, 07:58 AM   #500
Maddevill
KNGKAW
 
Maddevill's Avatar
 
AMA #: 542337

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hayward
Motorcycles: ZX14,GS750E, RM250
Name: Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVFRick View Post
APF's suggestions make more sense now. Too difficult to loosen wheel fasteners of NSR on stands.

I plan to add a breaker bar (PVC pipe good enough?), 6-point, 22mm, 1/2" driver socket and socket adapters to my tool set this weekend.
I've found that old school fork tubes make dandy breaker bar extenders for big, tight bolts. Just be careful you don't explode the breaker bar joint.

Mad
__________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're built upside down.
Maddevill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 09:17 PM   #501
RVFRick
Veteran
 
RVFRick's Avatar
 
1% Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Palo Alto
Motorcycles: '90 NC27, '94 MC28, '82 C70. Projects: '94 & 95 NC35s, '81 C70.
Name: Rick
NSR has new rubber

Anthony came down from SF Friday night to help. I bribed him with a sweet set of teak patio chairs that just needed a power wash. "When are you gonna pick up these chairs already? And BTW bring your 22mm 1/2" socket and 2-foot breaker bar."

In preparation before his arrival I put the bike back down on the ground and tried one more time to get the wheels off on my own. No go going at it solo with my 18" wrench. The NSR is too light and kept moving even to the point of ramping up and almost out of the Baxley chock . I had to wait for reinforcements to arrive.

Anthony arrived and opined it odd I always seemed to confront weird problems. It sure seems that way sometimes.

In the end I got to say I told you so because even with his 24" breaker bar, me securing the bike with the brakes it took him 4 attempts to get things moving and that was just the front wheel. Whoever tightened these wheels was a gorilla. I was afraid something was going to snap. We inspected the bolt and it looked fine. We moved onto the rear 36mm nut. Same thing, super tight and it took us both significant wrestling to crack the nut free. The rest was easy.

We spent the next 30 minutes removing fairings as Anthony wanted to see what hardware he was missing for his new NSR fairing set (he's going back to stock at great expense). It's a pricey market sometimes when it comes to grey market bikes. I noticed the fairing bolts on my bike were not stock - socket head cap screws with a mish-mash of washers. Yuck! A shame as the rest of the bike is perfectly OEM. I plan to order proper fasteners.

The next day Saturday 10am I brought the wheels into Evolution Motorcycles where the friendly guys took care of business while I ran a few errands. An hour later I loaded the updated wheels back into the minivan and bee-lined it back to the cave. Mounting went smoothly. Nisser has got a new pair of shoes . Now I just need to make time to break in the tires. The girls' high school starts tomorrow so we'll see how free time pans out in the coming weeks.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	NSR tires.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	87.2 KB
ID:	511787  
RVFRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2019, 11:07 PM   #502
RVFRick
Veteran
 
RVFRick's Avatar
 
1% Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Palo Alto
Motorcycles: '90 NC27, '94 MC28, '82 C70. Projects: '94 & 95 NC35s, '81 C70.
Name: Rick
2018 Q4 summary

It's been a while since I added to this thread. Obviously I rather than . Given the new year I decided to post an update so here goes.

November brought another stray into the cave.http://bayarearidersforum.com/mobile...light=ircsmith Yes, I'm a glutton for punishment and can't help myself. I would have never known about the listing if it weren't for a "friend" enabling me. Not sure if I should thank or curse him. I was also pleasantly surprised to see a familiar face. You see, in the strangest of coincidences, ircsmith and worked together 12 years ago! The world is small. It was fun catching up. The RVF-2 needs lots TLC that will have to wait because ...

older bikes require lots of attention and vigilance. In December I was reminded that my NSR250 is a blast to ride but ain't no spring chicken - she's 23. I took her for a joy ride to MotoGuild Silicon Valley one day and had smiles for miles except for when mother nature decided to piss rain a 1/2 mile from the Guild it literally started at the worst possible time. Then a spooked Prius nearly took me out at the squirrelly cluster f* aka NB I280/Meridian/GuadalupePkwy + Christmas shopper traffic. Sheesh! Not the time to learn the NSR's horn morphed into a feeble kazoo Luckily I kept it upright and found the Guild to be amazing. Cool vibe and nicest folks.

The next morning I opened the garage door to the distinct bouquet of fresh gasoline and a puddle of on the garage floor. Poor baby wet the bed. Apparently the previous day's jaunt in the cold wet weather wasn't to her liking. I haven't fully inspected/diagnosed yet but I believe the fuel tap is still good. Fingers crossed it is simply a cracked fuel line. Added to my to-do list.

Finally, yes project RVF-1 has languished. I've since bled the brakes, replaced the front fairing stay, cleaned the tank, and more but the carbs still vex me. I'll post details soon.

EDIT: Photos of my lair.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	NC35 Proj2 1.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	81.9 KB
ID:	516755   Click image for larger version

Name:	NC35 Proj2 2.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	102.4 KB
ID:	516756   Click image for larger version

Name:	NC35 Proj2 3.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	94.8 KB
ID:	516757  

Last edited by RVFRick; 01-22-2019 at 10:48 PM.. Reason: Add photos
RVFRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 02:03 PM   #503
rothmans
Lowering my expectations
 
rothmans's Avatar
 
Contributor +++ 1%

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CityOfAngels / Krung Thep
Motorcycles: Honda relics.
Name:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVFRick View Post
Fingers crossed it is simply a cracked fuel line. Added to my to-do list.
It never is

Good to see you still banging away on the older grey bikes. Lots of work but rewarding when they are right...I am still trying to get them right.
__________________
rothmans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 05:10 PM   #504
Map8
Don't H8
 
Map8's Avatar
 
BARF Moderator - BARF Sponsor
Barfie Winner 2017
Contributor + + +

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West Sacramento, CA
Motorcycles: 2017 Df3, YZ250F/SM (parting out), DRZ400SM, KTM 450SMR, CRF230/sm
Name: Steve
Appreciate the updates.
__________________
Only stickers increase horsepower. Duh. -mikhail

ďValentino is just a super down-to-earth, right on dude,Ē -Brad Baker

BARF Terms of Service
Map8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2019, 09:52 PM   #505
ddold
Veteran
 
ddold's Avatar
 
Founding Member
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orinda
Motorcycles: Honda NS400R, Ducati Panigale V4 Speciale, BMW F800GS
Name: Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVFRick View Post
Finally, yes project RVF-1 has languished. I've since bled the brakes, replaced the front fairing stay, cleaned the tank, and more but the carbs still vex me. I'll post details soon.
I'm coming in late on this, but if the NC35 carbs are giving you headaches, ditch them and pick up NC30 carbs. They were bigger as they predated some change to the licensing laws in Japan that Honda met the requirements for by shrinking the NC35 carbs to reduce power, from what I remember. With all else relatively equal between the NC30 and NC35, my NC30 was always faster than my friends NC35. The NC30 carbs are also "relatively" easy to find.
ddold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 10:18 PM   #506
RVFRick
Veteran
 
RVFRick's Avatar
 
1% Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Palo Alto
Motorcycles: '90 NC27, '94 MC28, '82 C70. Projects: '94 & 95 NC35s, '81 C70.
Name: Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by rothmans View Post
It never is

Good to see you still banging away on the older grey bikes. Lots of work but rewarding when they are right...I am still trying to get them right.
Haha! Not what I want to hear from someone who has "been there, done that". Maybe the o-ring between tap and tank? Something simple please

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddold View Post
I'm coming in late on this, but if the NC35 carbs are giving you headaches, ditch them and pick up NC30 carbs. They were bigger as they predated some change to the licensing laws in Japan that Honda met the requirements for by shrinking the NC35 carbs to reduce power, from what I remember. With all else relatively equal between the NC30 and NC35, my NC30 was always faster than my friends NC35. The NC30 carbs are also "relatively" easy to find.
Thanks for the suggestion. I do recall reading somewhere some people switching to NC30 carbs because they have larger throats. I figure that would require tuning skills I dont have.

For this bike I am trying to stay as original as much as possible. I have a spare set of nc35 carbs in case.

Last edited by RVFRick; 02-15-2019 at 05:33 PM..
RVFRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.