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Old 02-09-2018, 10:02 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
while an S1000RR isn't all that much faster, what it is is safer: traction control, ABS, etc
And $15k more than he paid for his GSXR, an expense factor supported by his point #1. Motos are a want not a need and cost of the bike and track days is a significant consideration for most people in what (if any) bike they buy or where they ride it.

We’ve got things pretty good here with the three NorCal tracks and those in SoCal.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:32 AM   #32
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Heck, wealthiest piece of land in the world has shittiest tracks. Look at any European track, not even a MotoGP track, something WSBK level, they have proper run-offs, gravel traps, markers for riders to look/point their bikes at, etc.
There is only one gravel trap at Sonoma - at the end of the drag strip. Track is ridiculously unsafe for everyone, beginner or pro and it is going to remain so until they follow international safety standards. Same applicable for t-hill, buttonwillow and laguna (tracks I've been to, well, yes, laguna is somehow a little better than other three, but sound restriction and price kills it)
Zero tolerance for a mistake - I know several guys who tried doing trackdays, crashed because of running off or hitting unreasonably high curb and quit, because they had to pay medical bill for broken collar bone or ankle.
Don't get me wrong, I love trackdays and all our trackday providers and I'll be supporting this sport as much as I can, because I love motorcycles and all related to them, but safety is a big concern and we all should stand and raise our voice.

P.S. checkout this vid from Portimao (shithole in Portugal) and look at the quality of the track


youtu.be/RllnXpuvvqc
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:47 PM   #33
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Well, I'll raise my voice..........don't freaking crash.

How many people didn't crash? Seem those that didn't musta knew something different from those that did....at a track day.

Do not blame poor judgement on how to ride the track on the track.

Poor decesions, poor judgement is the root of the majority of track day crashes.

If ya don't like the track don't ride it....however there are those that have no issues with the track, dont crash when others do.

Explain that......why do some crash and others don't at the same track on the same day?
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ontherearwheel View Post
Well, I'll raise my voice..........don't freaking crash.

How many people didn't crash? Seem those that didn't musta knew something different from those that did....at a track day.

Do not blame poor judgement on how to ride the track on the track.

Poor decesions, poor judgement is the root of the majority of track day crashes.

If ya don't like the track don't ride it....however there are those that have no issues with the track, dont crash when others do.

Explain that......why do some crash and others don't at the same track on the same day?
Generally agreed. Pro racers are paid to go really fast. I'll throw a number out there. 90% of trackday crashes are EASILY avoidable, and 6% more are avoidable. The crashes that are due to factors you can't control are very few and far between.

I can think of two crashes I have had where someone else ran into me. That's in 50 years of riding and 30 on the track. EVERY OTHER CRASH was MY fault.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:04 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
Generally agreed. Pro racers are paid to go really fast. I'll throw a number out there. 90% of trackday crashes are EASILY avoidable, and 6% more are avoidable. The crashes that are due to factors you can't control are very few and far between.

I can think of two crashes I have had where someone else ran into me. That's in 50 years of riding and 30 on the track. EVERY OTHER CRASH was MY fault.
You're totally right.

That said, the poor condition of the track CAN affect the likelihood of crashes. Things like the seam on the carousel/T6 are real hazards. Yes, riders should be able to avoid or compensate, however, if they're at the limit due to another rider, then it could be the straw that breaks the traction's back.

Anywho, I agree that for what they're charging, the track should be in FAR better shape than it is.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:30 PM   #36
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A little birdie told me last year that Sonoma is scheduled to be repaved in '19. I'll be attending all the days I can this year at Sonoma. Still my favorite track despite the turn 1 Wes Cooley abomination and the damn bus stop. The original track was best.

z2 is getting more Sonoma days this year. Probably due to their combined bike/ car days. The car TD provider can get more per day from their customers increasing revenue..
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:15 AM   #37
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You're totally right.

That said, the poor condition of the track CAN affect the likelihood of crashes. Things like the seam on the carousel/T6 are real hazards. Yes, riders should be able to avoid or compensate, however, if they're at the limit due to another rider, then it could be the straw that breaks the traction's back.

Anywho, I agree that for what they're charging, the track should be in FAR better shape than it is.
How can a rider be at the limit because of another rider?

A rider is at the limit because that rider wants to be there. It's their decision to be at the limit based on their judgement of the current situation.

In the short 5 years I raced, I had two accidents.....one totally my fault, the other was getting T boned in turn 11 at Sears Point....there was nothing I could have done on that one.

But they both have one thing in common.......poor judgement was used in making on track decisions.

The track had nothing to do with it.

That's my point....the track is not the issue but those not knowing how to use proper judgement for on track decisions are.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:10 AM   #38
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That's my point....the track is not the issue but those not knowing how to use proper judgement for on track decisions are.
Pretty much this. I don't like poorly maintained tracks. However, the speed and intensity I bring to a trackday depend on many things, particularly number of riders, skill levels, track conditions, and weather.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:46 AM   #39
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That's my point....the track is not the issue but those not knowing how to use proper judgement for on track decisions are.
Not disagreeing with this, but I'd also argue that if I wanted a bumpy ride, I'd take my dirtbike to Carnegie. Part of the reason I sign up for trackdays is to have a safe environment to explore the outer limits of my bike's capabilities (within reason of course).

Still, it's a bit counter-productive to pay a lot of money to ride on a track that's in similar condition to the ratty freeway that I ride to work on.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:14 AM   #40
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while an S1000RR isn't all that much faster, what it is is safer: traction control, ABS, etc
On the track, the rider determines safety, not the tech. Period.

I've picked up a lot of S1000rr's, .

The idiot riding the bike is always the issue. Most crashes at the track occur either charging corners and fucking up braking or getting into the gas too early on exit. The traction control (IF PROPERLY SET UP), helps with the latter.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:21 PM   #41
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It sucks that Sonoma is getting more expensive, but what isn't? What really sucks is how few days there are to ride Sonoma. I would like to see at least 2 days a month there (spread between the various providers). Instead we have 1 a month? Maybe less?

As for track safety, it's a shit-ton better than it used to be. And spots that aren't safe in your mind, slow down or leave a little room for error. I always thought T7 at T-hill doesn't have enough run off for the speed (>100 mph) so I leave a margin for error (wheel spin on exit pushing me wide). If you want to talk about track safety, what about watering jump faces? Especially jump faces right out of corners! Or just over-watering in general. Or combining 6 year old kids on 50's with adults on 450's. Or someone not realizing that the track direction has changed and they enter the track going the wrong direction. Or someone changing their line while doubling a jump that you're tripling. My point is that track riding a street bike is already a lot safer than many other forms of motorcycle riding, so calm down about a clearly visible/avoidable crack in the pavement.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:40 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ontherearwheel View Post
Well, I'll raise my voice..........don't freaking crash.
Ppl crash into other ppl, ive ridden track for 11 years now, its happened to me personally last year, and its also happened to someone else I know like 8+ years ago


youtu.be/8dW8aQEMaCM

I posted about this last year about all trackday decreasing in general, the hype is just not there, trackdays were sold out months before the date back then. Yes MONTHS before the date and thread views had like 10k vs 500.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:10 PM   #43
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If you were following of the topic of discussion, you would have noticed it is related to blaming the track for crashing.

Did the track cause you to crash?

Your reply really has nothing to do with that topic......blaming the track for crashing.

Another just example of jumping in a discussion and not really following the topic line.

I watched the video....I best not comment on it.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ontherearwheel View Post
If you were following of the topic of discussion, you would have noticed it is related to blaming the track for crashing.

Did the track cause you to crash?

Your reply really has nothing to do with that topic......blaming the track for crashing.

Another just example of jumping in a discussion and not really following the topic line.

I watched the video....I best not comment on it.
check post #33, then read response post #34, someone gave a stat compared too years and accidents, twice in 50 or 30 years.

I gave my stat, twice in 11 years. Dunno why you getting mad.

Then I also even touched back to the OP, how little the trackday riding community is compared to what it was. (thread count)
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:09 AM   #45
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