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Old 02-07-2019, 10:13 AM   #29221
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so, the 300BO and 458 can both be fired subsonic? Since that caps out at, what, 1100 ft/s, then, "of course" the 458 is going to have better terminal performance. 115gr for 300BO vs 300gr for 458, both traveling at the same velocity. 308 ft/lbs for the 300 vs 805 for the 458.

Ouchies.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:41 AM   #29222
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I hadn't heard of 458 subs. I guess they are a thing, though.

You have the weights significantly off: typical 300BO subs are in the range of 190-220gr while 458 subs appear to be 450-550 (with a few as high as 600). pretty similar ratio vs what you were looking at, just higher numbers.

300 subs have terminal ballistics not too far above 45acp.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:40 AM   #29223
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
I hadn't heard of 458 subs. I guess they are a thing, though.

You have the weights significantly off: typical 300BO subs are in the range of 190-220gr while 458 subs appear to be 450-550 (with a few as high as 600). pretty similar ratio vs what you were looking at, just higher numbers.
I spent a solid 10s on google to get those numbers.

Just so you know I put in the effort, and all.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:56 AM   #29224
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those weights are about right for supersonic loads
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:18 PM   #29225
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lowers aren't AWs so they transfer like any firearm
Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:59 PM   #29226
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I will ask and see if anyone has any info on the 458. 300BO tables should be easy to find, but knowing the guys on the forum they will say get a 458.

To me the 300BO would be my choice for subsonic shooting other than that I have other calibers that work for me.

What are you looking to use it for?
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Hey NorCal I had forgotten about the 300 vs. 458 but I did get two hits on my thread in the other forum. I think this post sums it up the best. The guy that posted this is very heavy into wildcats and tries almost every new cartridge that comes so I believe he has a bunch of good knowledge. Hope it helps.

Well if you are comparing subsonic rounds there is no difference in trajectory between the two rounds or the barrel lengths. I you are talking supersonic, they both have limited range and don't have great ballistics but any calculator can show that. But the 300BO is not comparable to the 458 when considering terminal performance. My 300BO is anemic.
I was thinking an AR pistol chambered in either would be a good wildlife carry hiking in any areas with large predators. I mean Iíve seen the video of the dude snowmobiling taking out a moose with his Glock but methinks a .458 would do better against a bear or mountain lion. Friendís got a place out in Colorado and Iíve got some friends up in Washington out in the mountains. I wouldnít really need it around the Bay Area I donít think. Glock is enough for the smaller cougars here.
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Old Yesterday, 06:30 AM   #29227
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Old Yesterday, 09:02 AM   #29228
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Originally Posted by berth View Post
so, the 300BO and 458 can both be fired subsonic? Since that caps out at, what, 1100 ft/s, then, "of course" the 458 is going to have better terminal performance. 115gr for 300BO vs 300gr for 458, both traveling at the same velocity. 308 ft/lbs for the 300 vs 805 for the 458.

Ouchies.
115gr wont do well for subs in a blackout. Thats a nice and accurate 2600 fps super weight bullet. Subs in a blackout will be 190gr or more. Many run 230gr at 1100-1200 fps.

And at that low velocity, you can run cast bullets in a blackout if lubed correctly. I've done it's pretty sweet. Didn't shoot enough to determine accuracy and load development.


Pic of 230gr cast blackout, pretty sweet looking!

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Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM   #29229
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I was thinking an AR pistol chambered in either would be a good wildlife carry hiking in any areas with large predators. I mean Iíve seen the video of the dude snowmobiling taking out a moose with his Glock but methinks a .458 would do better against a bear or mountain lion. Friendís got a place out in Colorado and Iíve got some friends up in Washington out in the mountains. I wouldnít really need it around the Bay Area I donít think. Glock is enough for the smaller cougars here.
Have you thought about maybe using a 10mm handgun. I know a lot of people use them to hunt?

Also from the other forum.

I am a huge fan of the .458 SOCOM and just finished building a 6.5 inch for subsonic use. It willl toss a 400 gr. Barnes Buster or a 500 gr. Hornady DGX bullet at a Quick Load predicted velocity of 1050 fps with a 25.5 gr. Charge of H110, COAL of 2.116Ē for the 400 gr bullet at 22000 psi and 2.250Ē for the 500 gr bullet at 32000 psi. Both have function tested fine with a .093 gas port at pistol length and a H3 buffer, standard spring.

Since the only way to get more oomph out of a subsonic bullet is to increase weight, the .458 is a pretty good choice, but the down side of these loads are that neither bullet will expand and the muzzle blast of both is damned near cataclysmic.

Also, if you get right down to numbers, the muzzle energy of even the 500 gr. bullet is pretty damned anemic, only 1200 ft-lbs at the muzzle. Unless one uses a bullet that will expand at subsonic velocities, like Maker bullets, these short barreled subsonic cartridges are not going to stop anything in its tracks short of a CNS hit. The penetration is great and the use of a flat nosed bullet, like the Barnes Buster, do impart more energy transfer to the target, and they smack steel with authority, but steel isnít a soft tissue game animal and IMO one needs expansion to make a quick clean kill. Frankly, I am not real impressed with any of these subsonic loads in any caliber.
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Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM   #29230
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Hmm, .458 SOCOM sounds very interesting for pig hunting. Can i legally own a .458 SOCOM upper in CA? and can I legally attach it to my CA compliant featureless AR15 lower if i want to switch calibers?
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM   #29231
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It's just like any other centerfire upper. If you don't have a flash hider on it, you can use it on your featureless lower.

The one potential issue is magazines: a 10rd 458 mag will work as a 30rd 5.56 mag.
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Old Yesterday, 10:17 PM   #29232
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It's just like any other centerfire upper. If you don't have a flash hider on it, you can use it on your featureless lower.

The one potential issue is magazines: a 10rd 458 mag will work as a 30rd 5.56 mag.
perfect. thanks.
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Old Today, 02:00 PM   #29233
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It's just like any other centerfire upper. If you don't have a flash hider on it, you can use it on your featureless lower.

The one potential issue is magazines: a 10rd 458 mag will work as a 30rd 5.56 mag.
Am i allowed to put a pistol size upper (8") as long as it doesn't have a flash suppressor on a lower that prev had a rifle size (16") upper on it? I thought i read somewhere that that was not allowed.

One other thing, are muzzle brakes allowed or do they consider that the same evil thing?

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