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Old 02-16-2018, 04:28 PM   #46
clutchslip
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Well, I am drinking and feeling chatty, so I will fill in for you.

Why don't we have the hard numbers, here, o.p.? How much more ARE they charging? What does it take to break even at Sears Point these days as a track-day-provider? I will defer to the Sears Point experts on many issues concerning the track. A few are in this thread. However:

My very personal opinion is that they should have moved the track away from the highway when they had the chance. The layout with the Carousel is really a great track. It actually is better with the bus-stop, (despite what other old farts say). The trouble is that it is extremely dangerous. There are actually very few safe places on the entire track for motorcycles. But, if you understand the dangers and RIDE ACCORDINGLY, it is a very fun track. Partly because the speeds are lower, unlike THill, where you know you will get hurt, just from the velocity.

Anyway, I haven't done a day in awhile and I miss it. I am sorry things have changed so dramatically for the industry, but I can't pay for everyone, so I will just hope I can pay for myself in the future, even at funky Bumpy Widow.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:51 AM   #47
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while an S1000RR isn't all that much faster, what it is is safer: traction control, ABS, etc
Don't rely on tech stuff to save your ass.

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It sucks that Sonoma is getting more expensive, but what isn't? What really sucks is how few days there are to ride Sonoma. I would like to see at least 2 days a month there (spread between the various providers). Instead we have 1 a month? Maybe less?

As for track safety, it's a shit-ton better than it used to be. And spots that aren't safe in your mind, slow down or leave a little room for error. I always thought T7 at T-hill doesn't have enough run off for the speed (>100 mph) so I leave a margin for error (wheel spin on exit pushing me wide). If you want to talk about track safety, what about watering jump faces? Especially jump faces right out of corners! Or just over-watering in general. Or combining 6 year old kids on 50's with adults on 450's. Or someone not realizing that the track direction has changed and they enter the track going the wrong direction. Or someone changing their line while doubling a jump that you're tripling. My point is that track riding a street bike is already a lot safer than many other forms of motorcycle riding, so calm down about a clearly visible/avoidable crack in the pavement.
You hit it on the nail Doug. I do think it's funny how we'll spend $300.00 or more for other entertainment...concerts, football, baseball etc, but cry fool when they're charged $300.00 to ride all day with some great people and have all the support of the trackday providers. It's cheap if you ask me. I don't want it to go up in price, but it's still one hell of a bang for your buck.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:31 AM   #48
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How can a rider be at the limit because of another rider?

A rider is at the limit because that rider wants to be there. It's their decision to be at the limit based on their judgement of the current situation.
The actions of other riders can put you in a predicament that requires you to push your limits in order not to crash. While control riding I've had people push me off track b/c of bad passes or in order to keep them from crashing. So, that said, if a rider moves to pass you on the inside, can't hold his line, and forces you to make a major adjustment, are you saying it's still your fault merely for being on the track? No, it's not - that's a forced situation and you shouldn't ALSO have to worry about the condition of the track while trying to not let that yahoo slam into you.

If you disagree, then we can agree to disagree. My point is that the tracks have one job... provide a surface suitable for pushing the limits of anyone they allow to ride on it. Riders have a responsibility to ride within their limits. The danger lies in newer track riders that don't know how to gauge where the limits are... they're still figuring it out and then hit the seam in turn 6 and low/high side. THAT is my concern - I've seen it happen. Could the rider have done something to avoid crashing? Certainly. Did the condition of the track contribute to the likelihood of a crash? I believe so. But it's the internet, everything is black and white, right?
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:32 AM   #49
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I do think it's funny how we'll spend $300.00 or more for other entertainment...concerts, football, baseball etc.

Speak for yourself - I don't spend any money on that stuff either.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:20 PM   #50
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Speak for yourself - I don't spend any money on that stuff either.
+1. literally never.
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:58 PM   #51
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+1. literally never.
I went to a concert three years ago. And 22 before that. Speak for yourself.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:21 PM   #52
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:27 PM   #53
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I went to a concert three years ago. And 22 before that. Speak for yourself.
+1 Ernie. I mean if they can't afford trackdays...can't afford some other means of fun, maybe they need to ask for a raise at work...marry a sugar mama or just sell all the toys in the garage and quite complaining about how everything cost to much money. All this banter is in good fun of course. Rock on Barfer's.

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the S.O. hates that I never save $$ for a vacation with her. for some reason she doesn't think that traveling to a small town in the middle of Wisconsin and hanging out at racetrack for 3 days isn't a vacation
Exactly...when I suggest a lovely trip to Carmel, Monterey and some camping and hiking at Laguna Seca...with a few laps around the track of course...she laughs and says nice try. She's pretty cool about it...especially when I'm able to get tickets for free sometimes...so she thinks. Little white lie here and there won't kill anyone. I use gift cards I get through incentive programs at work to buy 2-3 discounted trackdays per year. No harm no foul? I'm sure some people on here would disagree with my method of getting my trackday fix. Maybe I'm a terrible husband that doesn't drink, cheat, gamble, go to strip clubs, but does the honeydew list, kills spiders, takes out trash, picks up the dog poop etc. That's worth a trackday all by it's self.
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:05 AM   #54
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Heck, wealthiest piece of land in the world has shittiest tracks. Look at any European track, not even a MotoGP track, something WSBK level, they have proper run-offs, gravel traps, markers for riders to look/point their bikes at, etc.
...

P.S. checkout this vid from Portimao (shithole in Portugal) and look at the quality of the track


youtu.be/RllnXpuvvqc
keep in mind that many of the tracks are Nationalized and are run by or supported by their government. Not the case in the United States.

Why is Laguna different than the others, Laguna was redone in 1987 and took many directives from FIM to increase the length of the existing track and provide the safety standards at that time. This is what allowed them to have the return of the USGP in 1988.

And although Laguna is county run with SCRAMP management, just look at our Park and Rec system budget to get an idea on how much support the tracks getting, when not fighting lawsuits.

Just a different filter. And Sonoma and Laguna have come a long way in regards to run off/safety. But as John Ulrich will tell ya, it can always be improved.

But here are some differences from the earlier days in regard to safety:

Turn 9 (Now T11) Laguna


others below are:
T1/T2 Laguna. Note runoff and inside guard rail. Not to mention curbs like above at apexes.
T7 to T8 at Sears Point
The old T9 to T10 Sears Point.
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