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POR-15

M

mazer

New member
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
All Points West
Moto(s)
Nighthawk
Has anyone had any experience with this product? It was recommended to me to coat the inside of my gasoline tank. I am in the process of restoring an older bike - Thanks
 
mazer said:
Has anyone had any experience with this product? It was recommended to me to coat the inside of my gasoline tank. I am in the process of restoring an older bike - Thanks
Click to expand...

I used to just LOVE the stuff,....that is until I found this:

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

the POR-15 is just PAINT that has a xylol base, and you have to do a 3 step procedure which is full of pitfalls and usually takes a couple of DAYS.

with the caswell, you just rinse with lacquer thinner and some drywall screws, drain the thinner, empty the screws, another fresh thinner rinse, wait 30 minutes, and coat it.

the caswell is also a TOUGH 2 part epoxy, so it makes a hard inner "shell" which is completely impervious to gasoline, alcohol, pre-mix (2 smokers), and even exotic race fuels, like nitromethane.

I wont use any other tank sealer now, it's just:
1)easier to apply
2) makes a tougher inner shell
3) costs LESS (because you don't need the cleaner, or the metal prep)
4) lasts longer and never needs re-application.

ok I'll get off my soap box now,.......

but this is good shit maynard :thumbup
 
reckon said:
I used to just LOVE the stuff,....that is until I found this:

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

the POR-15 is just PAINT that has a xylol base, and you have to do a 3 step procedure which is full of pitfalls and usually takes a couple of DAYS.

with the caswell, you just rinse with lacquer thinner and some drywall screws, drain the thinner, empty the screws, another fresh thinner rinse, wait 30 minutes, and coat it.

the caswell is also a TOUGH 2 part epoxy, so it makes a hard inner "shell" which is completely impervious to gasoline, alcohol, pre-mix (2 smokers), and even exotic race fuels, like nitromethane.

I wont use any other tank sealer now, it's just:
1)easier to apply
2) makes a tougher inner shell
3) costs LESS (because you don't need the cleaner, or the metal prep)
4) lasts longer and never needs re-application.

ok I'll get off my soap box now,.......

but this is good shit maynard :thumbup
Click to expand...

seals pinholes too yes?

not to step on toes, but if the tank has internal screens coatings won't work unless you have a way to keep the screens clear. i ruled it out for my goldwing for that reason
 
auntiebling said:
seals pinholes too yes?

not to step on toes, but if the tank has internal screens coatings won't work unless you have a way to keep the screens clear. i ruled it out for my goldwing for that reason
Click to expand...

OMFG dood!

this is the PINHOLE KING!!

I have sealed holes larger than 1/4" dia. with it,...remember it makes a HARD, TOUGH inner shell, so you apply duct tape to the hole from the outside, and then in the sealing step, when you are done draining out the excess, you leave the tank propped so that the lowest point is where your pinhole, seam leak, weeping rust dimple, is and then when it's cured (next day), peel off the tape, and it'll have bridged the hole, and they STAY sealed.

this is the best thing for sealing a tank,.......EVAR.

I come from the "kreem" era (gawd that shit sucks), then I used the POR, and then my buddy who races bultaco's in AHRMA turned me on to the caswell stuff, and like I said, I won't use anything else now.

as for the screens, read the instructions, "If you have a built in fuel filter, blow air into the fuel line port for about 10 minutes. This will clear the filter of any Gas Tank Sealer"
so you blow compressed air through the screens after your done with the coating step, and it clears them very well.

I worked on many, many, many, many nortons, bsa's, and old triumphs that ALL have internal petcock screens, and not one had an issue with becoming clogged after sealing with caswell, as long as you remember the compressed air step.

the caswell has the consistency of thin whipping cream, so it's not a thick goopy sealer at all, however it has great "thixatropic" properties (means it clings to vertical surfaces well, and builds a nice layer) and works in just about ANY gas tank, metal or fiberglass.

it will NOT seal polyproplene or polyethylene tanks however ("acerbis stuff"), for that stuff you pretty much have to thermally weld it (which I can do)
 
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i have not read all the instructions on the casewell stuff, good to know about the compressed air step. i'll look into it again. i've been avoiding tackling my gas tank since i'd been planning to try electrolysis.

i've never used kreem, but heard only horror stories...
 
Interesting product. I like the idea of it b/c Kreem and POR both require a pretty hefty cleaning to give the sealant good adhesion.
Will this Caswell stuff stick to/penetrate through rust then?
Lacquer thinner isn't all that great of a rust remover and i got a car tank that's got a thick coat of rust inside...

I've been considering POR b/c it had some good reviews.
 
GottaRollWithIt said:
Interesting product. I like the idea of it b/c Kreem and POR both require a pretty hefty cleaning to give the sealant good adhesion.
Will this Caswell stuff stick to/penetrate through rust then?
Lacquer thinner isn't all that great of a rust remover and i got a car tank that's got a thick coat of rust inside...

I've been considering POR b/c it had some good reviews.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you READ THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE LINK I POSTED, it explains all this.

caswell is a phenolic epoxy that PREFERS to stick to a coarse, rough rusted surface,......once sealed, OXYGEN CAN NO LONGER PERMEATE THE SURFACE, so no oxygen, no oxidation (rust), so after sealing, no more rust can attack that surface as no oxygen can get to it with the 1/8" thick layer of the epoxy over it.

you use the lacquer thinner to remove any loose powdery rust (which fucks up the adhesion), and to facilitate the epoxy adhering to the coarse rusted metal surface.

because this stuff actually LIKES the rough rusted surface, instead of having to take 3 days to first clean the tank with "marine clean" (which is just "janitor in a drum") and then remove the rust with regular ol "metal prep"(phosphoric acid concentrate), and then use PAINT (por-15 is just paint, that dries by evaporation) to seal it,....you just slosh some thinner in the tank to loosen the powder, rinse with more thinner, and then apply the caswell AFTER mixing the hardener in it.

so if you really want to pay POR-15, $40, for $10 worth of standard hardware store supplies (you can get xylol based paint at home depot for half as much), go right ahead.

you also have to wait about 10-24 days for the POR-15 to air dry enough to be able to put gas in it, where as the caswell can be used the next day (48 hours for alcohol fuels)

but if what you want is a PERMANENTLY sealed tank that wont rust ever again, or ever need re-application of the "sealer", then the caswell is what you want to use.

think about it, whats a stronger substance, air dried paint, or a two part epoxy?

you guys can use whatever you like, but after sealing over 150 tanks now, like I said, I wont use any other sealer now, the caswell just works, better, and is 100% easier to apply.

nuff sed.
 
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Hey Rekon -

Your testimonial is pretty compelling for me as I shuffle through my custom epoxy-fiberglass composite tank build process...I've been looking at the caswell stuff, POR-15, and also this stuff from Hirsch:

http://www.hirschauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GTS

But my god, you've restored 150 tanks in your life...that's a lot of frickin' tanks!!! is that what you do for a living?

Anyway, if you have heard of the stuff from Hirsh I'd love to hear your thoughts. The epoxy I'm using is a marine grade from Tap Plastics which is reputed to have good chemical resistance but I'm interested in using something designed with chem resistance in mind primarily, hence the liner barrier. Good adhesion is also important of course.

OK, well hope everyone's keeping dry on this rainy Sunday.

Adam




reckon said:
I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you READ THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE LINK I POSTED, it explains all this.

caswell is a phenolic epoxy that PREFERS to stick to a coarse, rough rusted surface,......once sealed, OXYGEN CAN NO LONGER PERMEATE THE SURFACE, so no oxygen, no oxidation (rust), so after sealing, no more rust can attack that surface as no oxygen can get to it with the 1/8" thick layer of the epoxy over it.

you use the lacquer thinner to remove any loose powdery rust (which fucks up the adhesion), and to facilitate the epoxy adhering to the coarse rusted metal surface.

because this stuff actually LIKES the rough rusted surface, instead of having to take 3 days to first clean the tank with "marine clean" (which is just "janitor in a drum") and then remove the rust with regular ol "metal prep"(phosphoric acid concentrate), and then use PAINT (por-15 is just paint, that dries by evaporation) to seal it,....you just slosh some thinner in the tank to loosen the powder, rinse with more thinner, and then apply the caswell AFTER mixing the hardener in it.

so if you really want to pay POR-15, $40, for $10 worth of standard hardware store supplies (you can get xylol based paint at home depot for half as much), go right ahead.

you also have to wait about 10-24 days for the POR-15 to air dry enough to be able to put gas in it, where as the caswell can be used the next day (48 hours for alcohol fuels)

but if what you want is a PERMANENTLY sealed tank that wont rust ever again, or ever need re-application of the "sealer", then the caswell is what you want to use.

think about it, whats a stronger substance, air dried paint, or a two part epoxy?

you guys can use whatever you like, but after sealing over 150 tanks now, like I said, I wont use any other sealer now, the caswell just works, better, and is 100% easier to apply.

nuff sed.
Click to expand...
 
I ran my own resto/custom paint biz for many years, and had contracts from several bike shops for paint/resto work, and that usually means sealing up a rusty tank, or re-glassing, and sealing a fiberglass tank,.....usually they start outgassing, or "bubble weeping".

I think the 150 is probably a very conservative estimate as well.

if it was me, I'd continue with your composite tank build up,...then when it pressure tests solid,...I'd use the caswell liner,...the AHRMA bultaco guys are who turned me onto the stuff, because it works with fiberglass/epoxy resins so well.

I shy away from ANY tank liner product that DOESN'T use a catalyst/hardener now,.........that caswell stuff has just spoiled me (as I said)

best stuff invented since rubber tires :thumbup
 
Excellent followup, Reckon - Thanks; and yes, intuitively a two part hardener system seems more viable/durable than the paint-on goops I've been looking at.

BTW: you say "when it pressure tests solid"...is that a particular moment in the cure phase? Like after it's tacky phase but before it has become rock hard? (Jeez, one thing i've found is that the answer to questions I have on this stuff just leads to more questions :rofl)

thanks again.


reckon said:
I ran my own resto/custom paint biz for many years, and had contracts from several bike shops for paint/resto work, and that usually means sealing up a rusty tank, or re-glassing, and sealing a fiberglass tank,.....usually they start outgassing, or "bubble weeping".

I think the 150 is probably a very conservative estimate as well.

if it was me, I'd continue with your composite tank build up,...then when it pressure tests solid,...I'd use the caswell liner,...the AHRMA bultaco guys are who turned me onto the stuff, because it works with fiberglass/epoxy resins so well.

I shy away from ANY tank liner product that DOESN'T use a catalyst/hardener now,.........that caswell stuff has just spoiled me (as I said)

best stuff invented since rubber tires :thumbup
Click to expand...
 
NOTCH1 said:
Excellent followup, Reckon - Thanks; and yes, intuitively a two part hardener system seems more viable/durable than the paint-on goops I've been looking at.

BTW: you say "when it pressure tests solid"...is that a particular moment in the cure phase? Like after it's tacky phase but before it has become rock hard? (Jeez, one thing i've found is that the answer to questions I have on this stuff just leads to more questions :rofl)

thanks again.
Click to expand...

(really nice tank lay up btw)
I meant when your all done, and ready for paint: when I make a tank, after all the lay ups, I'd usually install the cap and petcock, and put about 10-15lbs of air in it, and sink it in a tub to see if I had any leaks,....so that's what I meant by pressure tests solid: no leaks.

the beautiful thing about using caswell for a glass tank build, is it clings and sticks to freshly cured glass like chemical vice grips (just make SURE you get all the release agent OFF the inside surfaces) AND it'll seal up any small leaks or pinholes/bubbles, so I think it's the best thing available for glass/kevlar/CF tank lay ups.

again,...great work on that tank (you should make more and sell em on fleabay) :thumbup
 
I read this thread _after_ I bought POR-15. What do I do now? I don't think
I can return POR-15 now unfortunately.

Suggestions please.
 
reckon said:
(really nice tank lay up btw)
I meant when your all done, and ready for paint: when I make a tank, after all the lay ups, I'd usually install the cap and petcock, and put about 10-15lbs of air in it, and sink it in a tub to see if I had any leaks,....so that's what I meant by pressure tests solid: no leaks.

the beautiful thing about using caswell for a glass tank build, is it clings and sticks to freshly cured glass like chemical vice grips (just make SURE you get all the release agent OFF the inside surfaces) AND it'll seal up any small leaks or pinholes/bubbles, so I think it's the best thing available for glass/kevlar/CF tank lay ups.

again,...great work on that tank (you should make more and sell em on fleabay) :thumbup
Click to expand...

Aha! OK well I was thinking that i could test my final construction by just filling it with water and seeing if it weeps on the table...I can see how having air pressure and water would have more assurance, tho. Reminds me of patching bicycle tire tubes with small holes: I'd always inflate the tire and immerse it under a sink of water to see where the leak was.

Anyway, your comment about ebay reminds me of an adage from the culinary world: "wanna make a million dollars in the restaurant industry? start with 2 million!"

sportsluvr said:
I read this thread _after_ I bought POR-15. What do I do now?
Click to expand...

Well you could always keep it around for the apocalypse, or as a refreshing libation for a bad house guest! :)

I bet a lot of the failures that you see out there with por-15 are from badly prepped tanks, but if you're working with something that's either new, or fastidiously prepped, then I bet you'll be okay. I do agree that the caswell stuff seems better but we're dealing with molecules here folks, it always pays to be really careful.



Adam
 
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