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Woke up on the lowside of the bed this morning

alcoHK

alcoHK

New member
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Location
EastBay
Moto(s)
always for sale
Left for work yesterday morning on my sv650 after commuting on the gixxer all week. I get a half mile down the road and go to make a left turn. loose traction and the bike and I slide across two lanes off traffic. My cycle gear leathers, gloves and helmet did great not a scratch of me after a 40Mph lowside.


leasons learned: ATGATT will save your arse. Warm up your damn tires. Take precautions when transitioning from one bike to another.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k512/alcohk1/?action=view&current=2011-08-11_07-13-44_512.jpg
 
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Bummer. Glad to hear that you're okay. What tires were you running, at what pressures and in what condition (new, scuffed in, worn or shagged)?

Pics of the gear that saved your hide?
 
Really? We're going to point to the tires as being the primary reason for this crash?
 
alcoHK said:
rider error
Click to expand...

Please elaborate, because from the first post I have no idea what you did wrong, nor what you'd do differently in the future.
 
Enchanter said:
Really? We're going to point to the tires as being the primary reason for this crash?
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No pointing, just a question, as the OP crashed "when the tires lost traction". Tires slipped, so look at the tires as a contributing factor. Who said "primary"? :rolleyes

If they weren't important, would they be part of T-CLOCS? He obviously "outrode" his tires, but did he outride good tires with good pressures or bad tires with bad pressures? Geez, Tim...
 
flying_hun said:
Please elaborate, because from the first post I have no idea what you did wrong, nor what you'd do differently in the future.
Click to expand...

#1 did not allow enough time for the tires to warm up before hard leaning. I will do so in the future.

#2 did not take time to get used to the sv after transitioning form the gixxer. I leaned a cold 160 sport tire like i would a 180 sport touring. The result being loss of traction. I will take the time to get used to the bike before any extremes.
 
My initial comment would have come across differently had I added a few more words, or continued for a few more sentences. It wasn’t meant as an attack/snipe although I can see how it came off more poorly than it could have had I changed something.

In my opinion, tire temp, wear, and pressure are blamed for far too many crashes. Far too many riders stop looking for contributing factors once someone mentions the tires. Once tires are mentioned, it gives them an ‘out’ and it then tends to derail the events, thoughts, and decisions that led up to the crash. I hate pointing to the condition of the motorcycle or its components. I would like to see riders become more mentally aware of the situation seconds, minutes, hours, and days before they crash. I would really like to see riders start to consider that it was their judgment that was the primary factor in their mishap.

I’d like to see CA become more focused on the mental aspects that contributed to the crash instead of the other factors. Recently there was a thread where a new rider was obviously riding way above their skill level, and someone then mentioned that had they had their suspension set-up properly, the outcome would possibly been different. If having a less than perfectly set-up motorcycle makes a rider crash, then how can we explain why people survived riding 25+ years ago when Aftershocks, Evolution, Lindeman, and others weren’t available to us? How are all the Harley riders able to traverse twisty roads without crashing?

If we as riders climbed into our heads and though shit out before getting on the motorcycle, there would be far less crashes.
 
FoolishMortal said:
No pointing, just a question, as the OP crashed "when the tires lost traction". Tires slipped, so look at the tires as a contributing factor. Who said "primary"? :rolleyes

If they weren't important, would they be part of T-CLOCS? He obviously "outrode" his tires, but did he outride good tires with good pressures or bad tires with bad pressures? Geez, Tim...
Click to expand...

Not allowed to be curious about tires in Crash Analysis. Enchanter will think you are blaming them. I asked that question on Monday and got smacked down.
 
Enchanter said:
My initial comment would have come across differently had I added a few more words, or continued for a few more sentences. It wasn’t meant as an attack/snipe although I can see how it came off more poorly than it could have had I changed something.

In my opinion, tire temp, wear, and pressure are blamed for far too many crashes. Far too many riders stop looking for contributing factors once someone mentions the tires. Once tires are mentioned, it gives them an ‘out’ and it then tends to derail the events, thoughts, and decisions that led up to the crash. I hate pointing to the condition of the motorcycle or its components. I would like to see riders become more mentally aware of the situation seconds, minutes, hours, and days before they crash. I would really like to see riders start to consider that it was their judgment that was the primary factor in their mishap.

I’d like to see CA become more focused on the mental aspects that contributed to the crash instead of the other factors. Recently there was a thread where a new rider was obviously riding way above their skill level, and someone then mentioned that had they had their suspension set-up properly, the outcome would possibly been different. If having a less than perfectly set-up motorcycle makes a rider crash, then how can we explain why people survived riding 25+ years ago when Aftershocks, Evolution, Lindeman, and others weren’t available to us? How are all the Harley riders able to traverse twisty roads without crashing?

If we as riders climbed into our heads and though shit out before getting on the motorcycle, there would be far less crashes.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I believe that in 99.9% of crash scenarios, the rider is at least partially at fault, even if it just comes down to (not) knowing the condition of your machine - but even if you focus on the rider in the analysis, you can't just dismiss the machine as a possible causal component.

As I tell my classes, you have to be prepared to be responsible for whatever happens as soon as you throw a leg over. If all riders went out with that in mind, fewer crashes would happen.
 
FoolishMortal said:
As I tell my classes, you have to be prepared to be responsible for whatever happens as soon as you throw a leg over. If all riders went out with that in mind, fewer crashes would happen.
Click to expand...

If you ride long enough you'll learn this stuff and then forget it at some point and then remember it again as you slide across an intersection @ 40mph. :laughing
 
monkeythumpa said:
Looking at the scrapes and skid marks it looks like you were traveling away from the apex when you lost traction. Otherwise the marks would be more than a 45 degree angle to the direction of flow. Maybe it was a wet or greasy spot and not cold tires if throttle was constant? Hard to tell without more context from the pics.
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hmmmmm...interesting. I cant remember much as it happened extremely fast.
 
The two bikes thing is an interesting thing that I can relate to.

My R6 has been in the shop for extended periods of time before. And when it was there, the shop loaned me a BMW R1150 to ride in the downtime.

Hopping on their bike, it was easy to adapt to. But when it was time to get my bike back (first time was 2 weeks, 2nd time was a month and a day), my R6 felt like a new bike and I had to re-learn how to ride on it again.

Now that I have acquired a 2nd bike that I've been using for daily-driver duty, I've come upon that scenario on accident. I rode the GS for 3 weeks straight leaving the R6 parked. Then I decided to take the R6 out for shits and giggles. And holy crap. I have no idea how the hell I survived while learning to ride on that thing. :laughing

Took it out again the next day and it was a bit more natural, but wasn't as comfortable as it was three weeks ago before I started riding the GS. I guess my body adapted to the painful ergos and has now become lazy with the GS.





Glad you were geared, and it has now paid off :thumbup
 
monkeythumpa said:
Not allowed to be curious about tires in Crash Analysis. Enchanter will think you are blaming them. I asked that question on Monday and got smacked down.
Click to expand...

Guys, the problem with a post that mentions the tires and only the tires, when no other causes have been discussed, is it looks like we're blaming the tires.

It may be that the OP's tires were cold. Cold tire offer less traction. Other conditions can result in less traction and we hear about these from time to time in the CA forum. Often, the common denominator is that the rider is accustomed to there being more traction and doesn't know how to find out how much traction he has. Being able to determine this is pretty fundamental to avoiding a repeat performance.

The OP has a couple of plans that will probably help. He's on the right track of being wary of reduced traction when the tires are cold, but I'm not sure he knows how to tell how much he's got.

Can we help him there? Any ideas?
 
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