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GREAT must read for L/W batteries..

EDR

EDR

Head Beehive kicker....
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Location
Portland
Moto(s)
15 R1
Name
Eric
Really informative, no matter what battery you use, if it is lithium based give this a read.

http://www.fullspectrumpower.com/battery-tender-for-a-lithium-battery/


I am biased as we only stock/sell/use the Full Spectrum ones. Tried ALL the others and theirs are most reliable and strongest cranking for size. My personal R6 battery is the older G1 now 3 years old and never had an issue and its about the size of a deck of cards, simply tiny.
 
And here I was putting my lithium battery on the batterytender every chance I got. It held up perfectly like that for 2 years and the tender seemed to be able to read the charge accurately, maybe I F'd it up or maybe they just want you to buy the charger. I'm not a gearhead or a chemist so can't speculate which one it was.

Going to have to save up for the P2 in the new bike.
 
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btw. from my experience battery tender is not to charge battery fully but just to bring it back if it falls down. Than you can start the bike and it will charge while running.
 
My 2 cents about this battery after reading about lithium based motorcycle batteries in general.

Positives:
A123 based cells. Gives the most amount of power and reliability.
BMS charging port. A BMS is required to properly balance the cells and maximize battery life.

Negatives:
Doesn't say it's water proof
BMS balancer is not built in to the battery, therefore requires a BMS charger to balance the cells.

But yah, I would definitely invest in a BMS charger if your battery has a BMS charging port. Balancing the cells is important to maximize life of the cells.
 
Thanks for posting this important info on lithium batteries. I will now go home and unplug my bikes from their respective battery tenders and disconnect the ground.

Another important point about these cells is that if they get discharged below a certain voltage they are destroyed. They CANNOT be put back on a charger without risk of combusting. Youtube lithium ion battery runaway discharge
 
akathisia said:
Another important point about these cells is that if they get discharged below a certain voltage they are destroyed.
Click to expand...

Not true, we got some back from almost 0. Lead batteries are not much better either in that regard.
 
i like my shorai!
 
i balanced my shor batt for my bike with my rc car battery charger. all my cells are even. just got to make sure u have the right charger for the battry and balancer. dont nuke it, seen it with rc batterys, swell up like a ballon
 
I got some responses to post up for you guys

I actually spoke with the manufacture of Full Spectrum batteries himself, the guy actually builds them, so i think even over just guys that use and sell them like Zoran (zoran you sell Shorai correct?) and I, his input is VERY valid and why the top teams like WSS Champs, KTM Factory teams etc use him and his products. So here are some responses, hope this helps everyone no matter what l/w battery they use. Just wanted to get the true expert on this as i am certain he knows far more than Zoran and myself
 
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Mjollnir said:
And here I was putting my lithium battery on the batterytender every chance I got. It held up perfectly like that for 2 years and the tender seemed to be able to read the charge accurately, maybe I F'd it up or maybe they just want you to buy the charger. I'm not a gearhead or a chemist so can't speculate which one it was.

Going to have to save up for the P2 in the new bike.
Click to expand...

Putting a lithium battery on a tender constantly will eventually lead to reduced capacity, as the Battery Tender is not “able to read the charge accurately”, but is only looking at voltage. With lithium, you can have surface voltage of 13.2 with capacity at 40%...and Battery Tender cannot read State of Charge.
 
TWF said:
Shorai say it is ok to use battery tender. Apparently they are full of shit :)

http://www.shoraipower.com/s.nl/it.I/id.5/.f
Click to expand...

Actually Zoran, Shorai does not say that at all. In fact, if you read the page you linked, you would see this about Battery Tender:
Q. Should I use a battery tender?
A.The short answer is "only if you really need to".

So, as pointed out, you really should not use a Battery Tender because it cannot measure state of charge, and therefore isn't good at actually "Tending" to the batteries...State of Charge.
 
TWF said:
Not true, we got some back from almost 0. Lead batteries are not much better either in that regard.
Click to expand...

Zoran, you have voided the warranty thou by allowing it below 9v. That's why we (all agree) you need to keep it properly charged up/maintained.

According to Shorai’s warranty, if the battery goes under 9v, you have voided the warranty. You can read about it on the Shorai website where they list conditions that void the warranty: “Over-discharge (resting voltage below 9V/4.5V for 12V/6V types”.

You can find that information here: http://www.shoraipower.com/s.nl/it.I/id.2/.f
 
TurboTiger said:
My 2 cents about this battery after reading about lithium based motorcycle batteries in general.

Positives:
A123 based cells. Gives the most amount of power and reliability.
BMS charging port. A BMS is required to properly balance the cells and maximize battery life.
Click to expand...

True- A123 cells are the worlds best, and Full Spectrum Power is the only company that actually uses A123 cells.

Actually, a charge port is required for a balance charge, which only needs to be done if the battery pack goes out of balance…which rarely happens. To call this a BMS charge port is marketing language, and is not quite accurate. It is a charge port.


TurboTiger said:
Negatives:
Doesn't say it's water proof
BMS balancer is not built in to the battery, therefore requires a BMS charger to balance the cells.

But yah, I would definitely invest in a BMS charger if your battery has a BMS charging port. Balancing the cells is important to maximize life of the cells.
Click to expand...

Your right, it is not water proof- it is highly water resistant. Lithium batteries needs to have a small vent for outgassing and safety, so if you see a waterproof lithium battery I would ask about the integrated safety valve…and if they don’t have one, run in the other direction. The Full Spectrum Power battery had no problems winning World Supersport and AMA Pro Roadracing and Motocross Championships in the rain, so you should probably be ok.
There is no reason to have active cell balancing on a system this small- if you are using good cells. Further, a real on-board BMS would add more than $100 to the cost of a battery, when it really isn’t needed. Again, a BMS (battery management system) is very different that a balance charger, which is what the 5-pin port is for. Shorai calls their balance charger a BMS because it sounds cool to non-battery people…but that doesn’t make it a BMS.
 
akathisia said:
Thanks for posting this important info on lithium batteries. I will now go home and unplug my bikes from their respective battery tenders and disconnect the ground.

Another important point about these cells is that if they get discharged below a certain voltage they are destroyed. They CANNOT be put back on a charger without risk of combusting. Youtube lithium ion battery runaway discharge
Click to expand...

This is not correct- at least not with the A123 Systems cells used by Full Spectrum Power. While the cells can be damaged by allowing them to remain discharged below a certain threshold, they are not going to catch fire during recharge- ever.

First, the FSP Pulse battery has a safety circuit which prevents this from happening, and second, the A123 Systems cells are one of the few types of lithium which is specifically designed to avoid this. Li Poly and other types of Lithium Ion may have this happen, but not LiFeP04 Nanophosphate, which is what the A123 Systems cells are.
 
Sorry for so many replies guys but there really is a lot of mis-information out there and i wanted to share with you guys straight from the guy that actually builds, develops and designs a line that many top teams (major teams that have very high standards).

I think (i hope) you guys will find the info helpful.
 
EDR said:
Actually Zoran, Shorai does not say that at all. In fact, if you read the page you linked, you would see this about Battery Tender:
Q. Should I use a battery tender?
A.The short answer is "only if you really need to".

So, as pointed out, you really should not use a Battery Tender because it cannot measure state of charge, and therefore isn't good at actually "Tending" to the batteries...State of Charge.
Click to expand...

It say right there that battery tender brand id OK to use with shorai. And Article is false in that regard and warranty (Shorai has 2 year and is not voided if you use tender), everything else is right on the money.
I already posted tender is not to fully charge battery.
Here is part you missed:

Q. Can I use Lead-Acid battery chargers or charger/tenders?
A.Yes. HOWEVER, you may NOT use a charger/tender if it has an automatic "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off. We have confirmed with Deltran, makers of the "Battery Tender" brand, that their products do NOT have a desulfation mode, and are therefore OK for use with Shorai LFX, for example. But the best possible charger/tender for Shorai LFX is the SHO-BMS01, which will be released on about March 15th 2011, we expect. It uses the 5-pin BMS port in the LFX batteries, in order to monitor, diagnose, and balance the individual cells during charge. And it also has an optimized storage mode that will give the longest possible service life to your LFX.
 
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