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Riding in suboptimal-traction weather conditions

latindane

Learner. EuroPW, NaPS
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
Denmark
Moto(s)
02 RSV Mille street, 07 GSX-R750 track
Name
K
I actually searched for a related thread in 1Rider but came up, to my surprise, empty. So here goes.

During my most recent Sunday ride, mid-November in Denmark (think mid-December in the Santa Cruz mountains), I was reminded of the beauty of riding on what I guess is best described as "suboptimal-traction weather conditions"... wet roads, collections of wet leaves or pine needles on certain turns, mud tracks across the road, ... you get my drift. For one, nature shows itself from a different side compared to your usual "fair-weather" riding: quieter, more serene, and still beautiful.
a25eet.jpg


That, in and of itself, makes it worth getting past the knee-jerk reaction that so many of us motorcyclists have: "it's raining/ has been raining/ whatever outside, so I'll just have to ride some other time." Get past that, gear up and go out... some of the fondest memories I have of BAR(-F) are from riding around Pescadero and Tunitas creek roads in wet conditions.

But of course, if it was just about the nature then you could make do with driving up to the mountains and taking a long hike (which I can also highly recommend, by the way).

There is a second dimension of benefits of, let's call it, wet-weather riding. It can be riding as the rain falls or simply because the roads are wet, etc. And it has to do with what a less-predictable road surface (in terms of traction) demands from you as the one sitting at the controls of your motorcycle. Your riding skills WILL gain from it.

Now, I cannot talk about wet-weather riding, reminisce about those times I did that in the Santa Cruz mountains, and not at the very least mention Gary J. So let me quote him:
"SMOOTHNESS" is the common bond shared in the riding styles of all profficient "Wet Weather Riders". To watch a highly skilled rider in-action, is to observe a two-wheeled ballet of fluid motion. No sudden braking, no abrupt steering inputs, no aggressive throttle application; just a series of contiguous and minute motions, performed in a well-coreographed form. - (the beginning of Chapter 5: "General Rain Riding Techniques" in his Rain Riding supplement, part of both his books)
and link to a thread he started, entitled Real World "Rain Riding Survival Skills/Techniques Checklist"

That thread already has a chunk of useful info/tips for wet-weather riding (all of which you should take with a grain of salt... some are incredibly specific and may not apply to everyone's style), so let me just bring up a couple of points of my own, which I think are nicely brought together by one overarching benefit of wet-weather riding:

Being aware of the surface not providing optimal traction will force you into good habits.

What I mean by this is the following: whenever I go out in wet weather, or otherwise meet some conditions that I know will imply suboptimal traction levels, it becomes almost painfully obvious that my brain is telling my body to be careful. The "wrong" way for the body to react to that message is to tense up; that will be absolutely counterproductive to your stability.

First good habit reinforced: Force your body to be consciously loose on the controls.
"They're HANDLE-bars, not GRAB-ONTO-bars" -Doc Wong (if my memory serves me right; he may correct me)

The next thing is that this "be careful", which borders with plain-old fear when it's the first time you encounter those conditions after a stint of "fair-weather" riding, will force you to start at an excessively high level of safety to then slowly and gradually learn what the motorcycle is telling you about traction levels. This is, I believe, a fairly recognized good practice of "faster safer" riding; when riding on the track this gradual process will allow you to relatively safely find the limit.

Second good habit reinforced: Slowly and gradually work up to a comfortable pace, learning from the feedback your motorcycle gives you.
"Using the controls in a smooth, calculating manner is more important the faster you go and will certainly prevent crashes and bike set-up problems [...]" - Ken Hill

Finally, precision with your lines becomes paramount; many times you have to stick to the cars' tire tracks so as to not wander onto wet leaves, mud, and other possible nastiness awaiting, which reduces your "lane" to some 15-20 inches rather to the usual safe practice of "stay in your lane" which is 9 feet or so (you guys owe me a cookie for translating to anachronistic units of measure).

Third good habit reinforced: Be precise with your lines.
When I think of line precision, I think of Keith Code's approach of building your line for a turn in a systematic way using reference points on the track. But the benefits of being precise with your plan in a turn go beyond faster laptimes: you stay in control and can make much calmer and better-informed decisions about how to change a line on short notice (if you spot a cow pie or pot hole, for example) than if you're just "winging it".

I'll close off (not anymore; more after the jump) with a funny story that I was reminded about when chatting about wet-weather riding with two-wheel tramp.
It was in Norway, on my way down to Bergen from Kristiansund. I stopped at a gas station and commented that the road I had just been on was not quite what I expected for it being late April. Suddenly, one of the guys, who had gone behind the counter, yells "hey, that's you!"
2lmxrup.jpg

Sure enough, that was me. Caught by chance by a road-conditions webcam which refreshes every 15 or 30 minutes and that the locals know to check almost no matter what month of the year it is.

That's what I have for now; we have a wealth of all-weather riders here on barf that I'm sure can add to the list of benefits.

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Edit 11-28-2015:
So I got out again today (see post #34 for a "ride report") and got to think about a few things worth adding to this OP.

First, a pic that prefaces several of my "insights" today:
fz2er8.jpg


Fourth good habit reinforced: Do NOT override your sight lines.
You really never can know what is beyond that bend. I'm sure there is a thread addressing this topic on 1Rider. This is also related to flying_hun's more or less frequent, and relevant, complaint about people getting complacent with a road they "know".

In this case, from the far side of this pic, I came from a wet but clean straight going slightly uphill, which turned to the left and went slightly downhill again. As you can imagine, all this [sarcasm]beautiful[/sarcasm] mud was not visible until very late. Had I expected the same traction conditions as just before the bend, and ridden at a pace consistent with that incorrect expectation, I am fairly sure my bike would be wearing some broken plastics right now.

Fifth good habit reinforced: Proper (smooth, progressive, and tactful) application of BOTH brakes.
If traction is really crappy, your rear brake WILL be your friend.

When I saw the mud on the above pic, I used my front brake while I was on clean tarmac but switched to rear for the final bit of slowing down. I also used mostly rear brake when coming to a stop at a spot with a bunch of wet leaves and needles, and used the rear brake as a support to the front brake quite often during the ride (I usually only use front when on dry).

Smooth, progressive, and tactful application of the front brake is a good habit to build that can be practiced on every ride. I would be willing to bet that most of us don't practice such application of the rear brake on dry conditions (OK, maybe when practicing emergency braking, but that's not enough). Nothing like a wet muddy road to remind you that you have two brakes on your motorcycle, and to be tactful in their application.

Sixth good habit reinforced: Proper application of the throttle (smooth, well-timed, progressive).
Think Keith Code, or our very own tzrider, whom I will defer to on this one:

Correct throttle control has heightened importance in the rain. Wet conditions don't forgive errors the way dry conditions do. Overloading the front in the wet is a quick way to fall down; getting the gas cracked on early and maintaining a gentle, progressing roll-on keeps the weight bias correct, optimizes traction and even provides a safer platform for the rider to assess traction by feeling for it with the rear. All of the best wet weather riders I've known understand this and I think it's a foundational idea.

Seventh good habit reinforced: Grab the tank with both legs.
Learned from Gary J; he advised me to hold onto the tank with both knees when riding goat trails (with slow tight turns).

This one becomes a good habit for the whole ride and not just goat trails because of the rain gear I have. My rain textile pants keep the water out and keep me warm with the liners in, but they don't stick to my tank AT ALL, like my leathers would, particularly with the liners swimming inside. The only way for me to keep light on the controls (see first good habit reinforced above) is to grab onto the tank with both legs and use my core muscles to sustain my weight, keeping it off my hands. Quite the ab workout!

I'll finish this bit by mentioning some of the cons of riding in the wet; it's not all pink unicorns.
  • The nay-sayers have a point in that it can get sketchy and a bit butt-puckering at times (that mud is simply not nice).
  • Putting on and taking off all the proper gear to stay warm and dry does take longer time.
  • Your bike will get dirty.
  • You will spend more time and money on chain cleaning and lubing.
But I must say that, given the benefits in terms of learning and improving, I am happy to live with the first, and given the joy of riding in general, the others are just trifles. :ride
 
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YESSS. I am a huge fan of riding in adverse conditions because of the strong feedback when you are not smooth or do something incorrectly. Plus the roads are usually empty.

EDit: Oh hai, I don't read gud. I remember that chat, I was in Italy and you asked for some wet weather riding tips. :D
 
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I remember seeing this video some years ago, and it's on point. The Brits are always good at getting their point across with a bit of "humour":
http://youtu.be/W-7b5l62f14
[youtube]W-7b5l62f14[/youtube]
 
Aren't all conditions, sub-optimal for traction?
I don't think it would be surprising to hear an announcer or a racer talk about a dry, warm track having "optimal" traction conditions. That said, you make a good point.
You know what I mean; you probably can offer a more accurate descriptor? Sub-par, lower than usual, ...?
Loved it. I'm definitely in hibernation mode.
Might want to consider the alternative. A nice sunny day even though the road is still wet is a great way to give it a try. I think for many, once you.get started you quickly go from avoiding it to cherishing it. As they say, once you go ..., ermmm, you get my drift.
 
If I were riding for a living, I might be more inclined to spend my time perfecting my crappy-weather skills. I don't mind a little jaunt in the cold and rain, but since I need to earn a buck sitting behind a computer, I'm probably better off sticking to dry tarmac. Have fun; be safe.
 
It rained just before Doc Wong's last workshop on Sunday and I felt it was an amazing learning experience. I definitely had to tell myself to be light on the bars, even as the bike was slipping on wet leaves and branches, but I came away feeling like a (slightly) better rider.

Riding is my only way to work, so I figure I better be good at riding in all weather conditions.
 
If I were riding for a living, I might be more inclined to spend my time perfecting my crappy-weather skills. I don't mind a little jaunt in the cold and rain, but since I need to earn a buck sitting behind a computer, I'm probably better off sticking to dry tarmac. Have fun; be safe.

Uh-oh... I not only earn a buck away from my motorcycle, but have kids and wife waiting for me at home.

Is there any indication that the risk of serious injury or death is higher conditional on riding in the rain? My guess would be the opposite, because of self-selection issues: my guess is that the proportion of squids/allmotorcyclists riding in the rain is much lower to the proportion of squids/allmotorcyclists riding on dry tarmac.

Paging DataDan to the courtesy phone, DataDan to the courtesy phone, please!
 
Is there any indication that the risk of serious injury or death is higher conditional on riding in the rain? My guess would be the opposite, because of self-selection issues: my guess is that the proportion of squids/allmotorcyclists riding in the rain is much lower to the proportion of squids/allmotorcyclists riding on dry tarmac.

Paging DataDan to the courtesy phone, DataDan to the courtesy phone, please!
There's virtually no data on rain riding risk. In crashes Hurt investigated, 2.2% occurred in rain or drizzle (no idea how they distinguished), and the same percent of the exposure sample was in those conditions. That implies no additional risk, but the numbers were very small: 20 crashes and 10 exposure subjects.

Of all motorcycle crashes in California 2001-2013, 1.4% were in the rain (2000 out of 135,000), but only 0.9% of crashes with severe or fatal injuries. And 11% of rain crashes resulted in severe or fatal injuries compared to 18% of crashes in clear weather.

I think you're right about self-selection. Those who do ride in the rain tend to be up to the task.
 
There's virtually no data on rain riding risk. In crashes Hurt investigated, 2.2% occurred in rain or drizzle (no idea how they distinguished), and the same percent of the exposure sample was in those conditions. That implies no additional risk, but the numbers were very small: 20 crashes and 10 exposure subjects.

Of all motorcycle crashes in California 2001-2013, 1.4% were in the rain (2000 out of 135,000), but only 0.9% of crashes with severe or fatal injuries. And 11% of rain crashes resulted in severe or fatal injuries compared to 18% of crashes in clear weather.

I think you're right about self-selection. Those who do ride in the rain tend to be up to the task.


:cool


Wow. You really are DataDan. Thanks for the info. Do you think people riding in the rain might also have a better outcome because they may be wearing proper gear?
 
Aside from the fact that his name is actually Steve, Data Dan really lives up to his screen name. :laughing
 
:cool


............................ Do you think people riding in the rain might also have a better outcome because they may be wearing proper gear?


What do you think ? maybe a riders level of awareness affects decisions on many important factors ?




Aside from the fact that his name is actually Steve, Data Dan really lives up to his screen name. :laughing
Seems legit ;)
 
There's virtually no data on rain riding risk. In crashes Hurt investigated, 2.2% occurred in rain or drizzle (no idea how they distinguished), and the same percent of the exposure sample was in those conditions. That implies no additional risk, but the numbers were very small: 20 crashes and 10 exposure subjects.

Of all motorcycle crashes in California 2001-2013, 1.4% were in the rain (2000 out of 135,000), but only 0.9% of crashes with severe or fatal injuries. And 11% of rain crashes resulted in severe or fatal injuries compared to 18% of crashes in clear weather.

I think you're right about self-selection. Those who do ride in the rain tend to be up to the task.

Dan, you rock. The bold bit up there is what I would have expected. The likelihood of severe injury or death conditional on a crash & rain (11%) is lower than the likelihood of severe injury or death conditional on a crash & clear weather (18%). Fairly sure that self-selection is a good chunk of it, some other may be lower speeds/ more care in the rain, ... lots of plausible speculation from there on.

Related to TWT's note about gear, Gary J would say that wet asphalt is more forgiving on motorbike parts and riding gear than dry asphalt: "The slippery road surface tends to be much more forgiving to the bike's hard parts, as well as to the rider's leathers, gloves, and assorted apparel upon impact." (2nd page of Chapter 2 in his "Rain Riding" supplement)
 
Gary J would say that wet asphalt is more forgiving on motorbike parts and riding gear than dry asphalt: "The slippery road surface tends to be much more forgiving to the bike's hard parts, as well as to the rider's leathers, gloves, and assorted apparel upon impact." (2nd page of Chapter 2 in his "Rain Riding" supplement)
I once crashed in Turn 6 at Laguna in pouring rain wearing Levis and a leather jacket (this was so long ago that the provider didn't require full leathers). Picked up the bike, finished the lap, rode home at the end of the day with no injuries (but some busted bike parts).
 
Hm. With a bit of time to mull over the stats... the Hurt report numbers are good news regarding base probability but the sample size is VERY small, as you note.

2000 crashes 2001-2013 is definitely large. Is there any survey or other source that would be informative about the number (or estimated proportion) of riders in California who... hmmm... ride in the rain even if they're not caught by surprise? (i.e. proportion of riders who "choose" to ride in wet conditions?)
 
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Dan, you rock. The bold bit up there is what I would have expected. The likelihood of severe injury or death conditional on a crash & rain (11%) is lower than the likelihood of severe injury or death conditional on a crash & clear weather (18%). Fairly sure that self-selection is a good chunk of it, some other may be lower speeds/ more care in the rain, ... lots of plausible speculation from there on.

Related to TWT's note about gear, Gary J would say that wet asphalt is more forgiving on motorbike parts and riding gear than dry asphalt: "The slippery road surface tends to be much more forgiving to the bike's hard parts, as well as to the rider's leathers, gloves, and assorted apparel upon impact." (2nd page of Chapter 2 in his "Rain Riding" supplement)
I think the statistics are useless, except that they might show that lower speeds and wearing more stuff improves your injury prevention. That I could tell you without any statistics. And the sky might be clear in these stats, but the highway wet or frozen, so that part is missing. Better riders? I doubt it. We are just pulling numbers to justify our beliefs with that one. Most of these "foul weather" threads turn into testosterone circle slides on who is the best in the baddest conditions.

And with a new bike, how are you learning much with ABS and TC? Haven't we thrown this around numerous times in the electronic aid threads? Are people turning off their safety features and heading for the snow? I did lots of sliding around on wet streets intentionally, BUT that was on very small cc, very light, dirt bikes at very slow speeds, and usually in very safe places. (Please note all the very(s).)

Do you apply this same advice to drivers? Am I missing driving skills by not looking for poor conditions to drive around in, rather than waiting until I am forced to drive in poor conditions? Does anyone do this with a car?
 
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Do you apply this same advice to drivers? Am I missing driving skills by not looking for poor conditions to drive around in, rather than waiting until I am forced to drive in poor conditions? Does anyone do this with a car?

It might not be the best idea for me to engage, but yes. That is the reason why driver training facilities here in Denmark have what might translate as a "slippery track". That being said, traction on wet roads tends to be far better than you seem to fear, and definitely much better than on such a "slippery track".

I definitely hope that this does not turn into the kind of thread you, ironically, refer to. Statistics are very useful as long as 1) you ask the right questions and 2) you do not overinterpret the numbers.
 
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The best experiences/memories, I have, are from the most severe conditions I've been caught in.

Wind, rain, earthquake. Everyone of them was fun, and never crashed,
so no financial or physical recovery time, either. :thumbup
 
The best experiences/memories, I have, are from the most severe conditions I've been caught in.

Wind, rain, earthquake. Everyone of them was fun, and never crashed,
so no financial or physical recovery time, either. :thumbup

I have crashed. Once on the street, 4 times on the track, and already uncountably many times in my short "career" riding dirt/ trail.

I'm pretty sure all of those can be chucked to me and to me alone. Being an ass on the street, making some small mistake close to the limit on the track, and well... dirt is dirt.

Have not been an ass nor been close to the limit when riding on wet roads so, knock on wood, have not crashed in those conditions yet. But I have learned a lot from riding in the wet; crashing is not a necessary condition for learning (though it tends to be a sufficient condition).
 
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