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Why don't non-cruiser / Harley / MC riders care about rights / politics?

What's your position on motorcycle rights and political involvement?

  • I care, and get involved.

    Votes: 30 38.0%

  • I care about motorcycle rights, but don’t have time to read or post.

    Votes: 22 27.8%

  • I don’t think there are any issues to care about. Things are good, always will be.

    Votes: 6 7.6%

  • I just don’t care.

    Votes: 3 3.8%

  • I ride like an asshole and don’t care about the consequences, so why would I get involved?

    Votes: 6 7.6%

  • Other (please post and explain)

    Votes: 12 15.2%
  • Total voters
    79
Surj

Surj

Uneasy Rider
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Location
The Sac
Moto(s)
R1200RT, CRF250L, XT225, dos Monkeys
Name
Surj
BARF perks
AMA #: 2825187
Seriously. Budman, Butch, and lots of other folks spend a lot of time working on things like lane splitting, land access, and so on, and so often the pleas for support seem to fall on deaf ears.

Example:
- Butch's thread about politics and news sources has 538 views, 32 posts, posted on 12.17.15.
- Budman's announcement about the Unification Rally, from 12.31.15, has 132 views.
- My ride to the rally thread, from 12.20.15 currently has 620 views, 27 posts, and we have a handful of confirmed participants. The Facebook event page has 21 riders confirmed. I got more riders to show up and give money on our Black Friday benefit ride, ferchrissake.

...I could go on.

For comparison, Budman's thread asking about ADV Rider's software has over 2,000 views, 105 posts. That thread with massive piles of horseshit has over 13,000 views, 333 posts.

Again, I could go on.

Also for comparison, I've been to the previous Unification Rallies. Thousands of riders showed up. I've been to monthly confederation of clubs meetings with hundreds of riders.

So what gives? Why the deafening silence from y'all on this stuff?

Further clarification: this isn't only "why aren't you attending the Unification Rally?" As noted above, these topics get very little attention here. Why?
 
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I noticed that and wondered also. But I'm a damn foreigner and don't have any say in it.
 
Well, I don't go in for riding 350 miles in the cold on freeways on my CBR for one. For another, I have no idea what I would be tacitly lending my support to. When I see tips like 'no weapons' and 'no drinking' I get nervous. I'm pretty excited about more research about motorcycle safety getting done. I'd be interested to know if reflective gear was actually any statistically safer. I read the Berkeley study about lanesplitting, and would cheerfully support a set of rules defining legally permissible speed deltas and traffic speeds. Right now we don't have any such rules, which has a very real possibility of alienating folks and causing pushback against the whole idea. Living off highway 9, I'd be happy to see more enforcement of exhaust noise levels - I don't like waking up to "POTATO-POTATO" coming through my walls.

Overall, I'm not sure what issues are in play, Sacramento is a long way to go, and the venue sounds like the kinda place where I would be pretty uncomfortable. I hope that lends a bit of clarity. I'm really not trying to be judgmental, but since you asked, I'll give you my honest perspective.
 
Surj said:
So what gives? Why the deafening silence from y'all on this stuff?
Click to expand...

Find me an issue or a group where the majority of supporters aren't tinfoil hat-wearing yahoos who couldn't recognize a reasonable compromise if it bit them on the ass and I might be interested in offering my support...
 
SFSV650 said:
Few people think to check those subforums? :dunno
Click to expand...

This. Honestly, I think most people on Barf only check General, Group Rides, Social Gatherings, Sink and Classifieds. IMO, if you want visibility on something, especially if it's important, put it in General if it's Moto related.
 
gaius49 said:
Well, I don't go in for riding 350 miles in the cold on freeways on my CBR for one. For another, I have no idea what I would be tacitly lending my support to. When I see tips like 'no weapons' and 'no drinking' I get nervous. I'm pretty excited about more research about motorcycle safety getting done. I'd be interested to know if reflective gear was actually any statistically safer. I read the Berkeley study about lanesplitting, and would cheerfully support a set of rules defining legally permissible speed deltas and traffic speeds. Right now we don't have any such rules, which has a very real possibility of alienating folks and causing pushback against the whole idea. Living off highway 9, I'd be happy to see more enforcement of exhaust noise levels - I don't like waking up to "POTATO-POTATO" coming through my walls.

Overall, I'm not sure what issues are in play, Sacramento is a long way to go, and the venue sounds like the kinda place where I would be pretty uncomfortable. I hope that lends a bit of clarity. I'm really not trying to be judgmental, but since you asked, I'll give you my honest perspective.
Click to expand...

These are valid concerns, that I think a lot of folks, myself included, have voiced. The venue, however, is the state capital. Not some biker bar. Admittedly, having organizers say "no weapons" sets a strange tone, however organizers are worried about profiling and a lot of people getting busted in on place.

It sounds like you have a pretty clear idea of what you'd like to talk about. We need more folks like you lending their voices.

fubar929 said:
Find me an issue or a group where the majority of supporters aren't tinfoil hat-wearing yahoos who couldn't recognize a reasonable compromise if it bit them on the ass and I might be interested in offering my support...
Click to expand...

Your issue is lane splitting. And how can we expect to reach a reasonable compromise when no one else, i.e. us (whoever that is), shows up in numbers worth considering?

SFSV650 said:
Few people think to check those subforums? :dunno
Click to expand...

Group rides? Sure. But General?
 
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jh2586 said:
This. Honestly, I think most people on Barf only check General, Group Rides, Social Gatherings, Sink and Classifieds. IMO, if you want visibility on something, especially if it's important, put it in General if it's Moto related.
Click to expand...

Budman's announcement is at the top of every forum. Butch's thread about news sources was in General.
 
I think the cruiser/Harley scene is a bit more group oriented. They have clubs and a generally shared image. With that, I believe it is easier to rally them for a common cause.

For me, the idea of going somewhere with thousands of other motorcyclists sounds daunting, honestly not my thing. I don't even care for group rides, much less mass rallies. I'm really glad that people do go to events like this, but I'll probably never be one that attends.

I'd like to see the AMA come out hard in support of lane splitting/motorcycle rights and be as tough and irreverent as the NRA.
 
All this talk about rights.....well what rights?

A motorcycle is a motor vehicle. What rights as a motor cycle rider do I have that are being restricted?

The only thing I'm concerned with is barf and city bike making it worse for motorcyclist like trying to make Lane splitting more legal.
 
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I care about the rights, but I'm still in the getting used to riding phase, I'm not at a point in life where I can really afford the time to get super involved at this point.
 
Surj said:
Your issue is lane splitting. And how can we expect to reach a reasonable compromise when no one else, i.e. us (whoever that is), shows up in numbers worth considering?
Click to expand...

The fact that you're arrogant enough to think you know what issues I care about is exactly the reason I want no part of whatever you're involved in. I'm certainly not going to show up to some rally where the majority of participants are advocating for ideas I think are patently stupid: you know the news media are just going to count the number of heads and then assume that we all support whoever can yell the loudest. My guess is that will be someone from the AMA or ABATE or some other lobbying group I can't fucking stand...
 
fubar929 said:
The fact that you're arrogant enough to think you know what issues I care about is exactly the reason I want no part of whatever you're involved in. I'm certainly not going to show up to some rally where the majority of participants are advocating for ideas I think are patently stupid: you know the news media are just going to count the number of heads and then assume that we all support whoever can yell the loudest. My guess is that will be someone from the AMA or ABATE or some other lobbying group I can't fucking stand...
Click to expand...

Wow.

You said "Find me an issue or a group where the majority of supporters aren't tinfoil hat-wearing yahoos..." I was simply responding to that, as that's an issue that most of us here support in one way or another, and therefore seemingly fits your criteria. I don't know what issues you care about, or if you (the royal you, as in everyone on BARF) care about—thus this post.

But way to represent the whole "reasonable compromise" thing. :thumbdown

Again, this isn't really about the rally, and I edited my original post to clarify that. It's about the lack of effort / involvement from this segment of the rider population.
 
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I think there is a disconnect between Cruiser based MC's, Off Road riders, and BARF's demographic. At this point, a guy on a R1200 GS in an Aerostich doesn't receive the same treatment as a guy on a roadglide in a pirate kit. It's hard to sympathize with people who sign up for a stereotypical image when they reap the consequences of the negatives prior stereotyped people have done. For most of us, we don't see this as a problem. We even jump on the bandwagon and dogpile on to the anti loud pipe, pro helmet, ATGATT mantra.

Here's a pro tip: The loss of choices come in tiny, tiny increments. You may agree with helmet laws. You may want to make ATGATT a law. You may want loud pipes to be prosecuted. One you start putting laws like these on the books, it doesn't stop.
Look at smog laws. It started with general emissions laws. Then smog checks with a rolling exemption. Now that's gone away. Is it too far fetched to think that California could require smog updates when your 1971 truck has an engine failure? The BAR could require any shop installing a new engine in any car to perform a retrofit, unless the vehicle has some kind of restricted use registration. You can call it a conspiracy theory, but I am sure someone here will think that that's a good idea. That's all it takes. A vocal group opposed to a "hobby" can whittle it away.
The same thing is happening to off road enthusiasts. Acre by acre, lands are being more tightly restricted because the voice of opposition is louder than the voice of the hobbyists. Land developers want room fore more McMansions, and those dollars are far more enticing than day use fees.
You may not care if Joe Harley has to wear a helmet against his will, or if Evan the motocrosser has a place to ride. You will care when it's a criminal charge to re-map your 1200GS because the California mapping sucks.
These fights may not have reached your doorstep yet, but keep ignoring them and they will.
 
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cruiser / Harley riders seem to ride to be part of a group.
group rides, common wardrobe choices, group think.

Most of us on BARF ride to be different from any group.
some of us like group rides, but likely a vast majority of us do not and ride in a super small group or solo

Organizing into a unified voice is just not us.

like herding cats. anarchists unite! (procrastinators unite, like, well, maybe tomorrow.)
 
Blankpage said:
Nobody reads the stickys
Click to expand...

This. My eyes start about 7 posts down.

Why does the the human mind ignore the second "the"?

Not trying to make any excuses for my own apathy on deeper involvement. We all need to try and participate to effect change. I know I could/should do a lot more. Much, much appreciation for you and Bud going above and beyond trying to bring light to these issues.

If it's important start a new post in General and keep it active with new comments and updates. Then people like 929 can voice his concerns with constructive criticism on the direction people putting in the legwork are going.
 
The fundamental problem with political activeness and the vast majority of motorcycle riders is that the two concepts are diametrically opposed.

Political activists are groups that band together to focus change on a single topic through political action.

Motorcycle riders tend to be independent and want to get out of the crowd and be individuals.

The exception to this is the so called "biker" crowd that dress up in biker garb and join their other biker poseurs because it is a lifestyle they can store in their closet and garage and put it on when the mood strikes them.

Personally, I actively avoid participating in biker and biker poseur events as I detest the fakeness of the poseurs and the illegal BS image of the bikers. I do not want to be associated with them in any way shape or form.

IMO the biggest issue with motorcycle political rallies is lack of focus.

The rally needs to be focused on a SINGLE issue. AND needs to be widely publicized.
 
I have intended to make these rally's before but weather and or other commitments have stopped me. There are members in my club that are active on some of these issues.
 
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