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[solved] 2007 Tuono 1000R Won't Turn Over When Starter Button Pressed

Bumpits

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Location
Creek o' Walnuts
Moto(s)
07 Tuono 1000R
Name
Danny
I haven't been active on BARF in years, partly because I haven't been riding. I cracked the frame in an accident and had GP Frame and Wheel weld it up. After a year or two of use, the crack reopened. I decided to drop the motor, swap the frame, and reassemble the bike, but now it won't start. There's a short or something somewhere in the wiring harness, and I can't figure out where.
I'm looking for someone familiar with the bike—it's a 2007 Aprilia Tuono 1000R, though the wiring should be similar to any Rotax-powered Aprilia from that era. My garage is set up like a workstation at MotoGuild, so all the tools you might need are here. I've replaced nearly every part except the ECU, which might be next if something is shorted out. I just need someone to verify that everything's been done correctly.
Speaking of MotoGuild I've reached out to them, but no mechanics are interested in the project. Several shops have also declined as well, since I dropped the motor and replaced the frame—they don't want to fix another "mechanic's" mistakes.
Here's what's happening now:
  • Current Symptoms:
    • Insert key, turn it on: Dashboard animation starts, fuel pump primes, and fuel is pumped into the combustion chambers.
    • Dashboard shows error codes P-1611 and A-44, indicating an "idle control stepper motor error." I replaced the stepper motor and cleared the ECU codes, but the error persists. These codes shouldn't prevent the bike from starting but could have the same cause, be it related to wiring, or the ECU being fried.
    • Occasionally, the starter motor turns when the button is pressed, but it's rare. Most of the time, pressing the starter just runs the fuel pump, dumps fuel into the combustion chamber, and restarts the dash display.
  • Things I've Checked:
    • Sensor connections and completeness of the wiring harness. Every plug on the bike is a different shape so one can't plug something into the wrong socket, but had to make sure everything was plugged in.
    • Manually completed the circuit on the starter solenoid to ensure the starter motor turns.
    • Threw parts at it: starter solenoid, MAF sensor, idle stepper motor, fuses, and battery—no difference.
  • Things I Haven't Done:
    • The ground wires to the motor are hard to check, tightly jammed between the motor, frame and bulk of the wire harness. Checking them might require dropping the frame or disassembling the wiring harness.
    • Tried a new ECU to see if it resolves the issue. I'm weary of spending $150 on a part I might also fry if it's both a faulty ECU and a wiring issue.
  • Other Potential Issues:
    • The vacuum lines were modified by the previous owner to delete the EVAP canister. I'm not sure I ran them correctly. While this shouldn't stop the bike from turning over, it might prevent it from starting in the future. Aprilia's diagrams are incorrect, which doesn't help.
If anyone is interested, I could really use some help figuring this out. Happy to pay for the attempt.
 
how do you know fuel is getting into the cylinder? the fuel pump can spin, it could even build pressure to tell the system to shut off ready for start and some weird thing keeps the injector from opening when you press the magic start button.

ground: my only aprilia ownership experience was a very ratty rsv1000 that had been tuono'd aka streetfightered aka severely crashed. it had really crappy grounding from motor, thus starter, back to the battery which was a factory feature i understand. i ran some leftover house wiring (10 gage stranded i think, maybe 8. 14 probably would have solved it also but i had the big stuff so why not?) from a random screw on one of the engine covers (not a sealing surface fastener) straight back to the battery negative lug. it was quite easy to start after that. you can diagnose this by jumpering the ground with one side of a pair of jumper cables from battery negative terminal to somewhere on the engine case
 
how do you know fuel is getting into the cylinder?
You can hear the fuel pump and smell gas in the combustion chamber if you open the throttle valve. The airbox is removed, but the mass air sensor and idle control valve are still connected, hoping the P-code will clear. This setup allows me to observe what’s happening while attempting to start the motor. Occasionally, it tries to turn over, leading me to suspect either an ECU short or a bad connection somewhere. I don't know why it's only turning over sometimes so I can't replicate it.

it had really crappy grounding from motor, thus starter, back to the battery which was a factory feature i understand. i ran some leftover house wiring (10 gage stranded i think, maybe 8. 14 probably would have solved it also but i had the big stuff so why not?) from a random screw on one of the engine covers (not a sealing surface fastener) straight back to the battery negative lug.
There are two 6mm threads on either side of the motor. The ground attaches to the one on the left side, about ten inches above the neutral gear sensor. It’s the only part of the wire harness disassembly I vividly remember because it’s located between the motor and the frame. To remove it before dropping the motor, I had to cut a hex wrench so it would be shallow enough to fit in that narrow space.
Have you checked the run/stop switch?
I performed a basic voltage check on the wires behind the buttons where they’re soldered to the switches, primarily to ensure the on/off button was functioning correctly. I’ll double-check it again, considering the wires might have been damaged from sitting in a box for a few months during disassembly. I might just replace it to be certain.
 
I performed a basic voltage check on the wires behind the buttons where they’re soldered to the switches, primarily to ensure the on/off button was functioning correctly. I’ll double-check it again, considering the wires might have been damaged from sitting in a box for a few months during disassembly. I might just replace it to be certain.
I asked mainly because of the intermittent nature of the issue, as I think you said the starter will run every now and then. If the switch is consistently good, I'd check for voltage at the inputs of the starter relay when you press the starter, If no voltage, I'd work your way up the wire to the next component.

I didn't find a schematic that was very easy to read when I was replying, but it does look like the ECU has a role in sending voltage to the starter relay. Again, based on the intermittent problem, I'd suspect a connection or switch before the ECU.
 
does the wiring diagram show an "ignition interupt" switch?

that switch may actually be a clutch lever switch. does a tuono have one? if yes, make sure it is functioning OK.

maybe your issue?
 
does the wiring diagram show an "ignition interupt" switch?

that switch may actually be a clutch lever switch. does a tuono have one? if yes, make sure it is functioning OK.

maybe your issue?
The ignition interrupts would be the neutral sensor and the kickstand and clutch switches, but while the bike's in neutral the kickstand and clutch shouldn't matter. It looks like those switches and neutral sensor plug into the ECU and the ECU handles those interrupts.. (edit: ....there was one ignition interrupt i forgot about, the tip over sensor :cry)
I asked mainly because of the intermittent nature of the issue, as I think you said the starter will run every now and then. If the switch is consistently good, I'd check for voltage at the inputs of the starter relay when you press the starter, If no voltage, I'd work your way up the wire to the next component.

I didn't find a schematic that was very easy to read when I was replying, but it does look like the ECU has a role in sending voltage to the starter relay. Again, based on the intermittent problem, I'd suspect a connection or switch before the ECU.

I did a bit of work to this wire diagram to make it easier to read. The start/kill buttons definitely work. When I press the start button it runs the fuel pump, and there's no line between the start and the fuel pump without the ECU.

1724396092087.png
 
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So, I was studying the wire diagram, focusing particularly on this section:


1724405660110.png

I paid special attention to the "G/V" wire (Giallo/Verde, or Yellow/Green in Italian) that runs between the ECU and the coil in the starter relay, which is responsible for closing the contact and starting the motor. After completing the diagram, I decided to take some additional voltage readings on the G/V and R/M wires. The results were puzzling. When I connected the voltmeter terminals to G/V and R/M, I got 12.4 volts with the bike "on" but not running. To me, this suggests that my motorcycle might be possessed by a demon because it makes no logical sense otherwise. Maybe a short? Pressing the starter button drops the voltage to 11.7 volts, but still, the 12.4-volt reading while the bike is simply "on" is a mystery, and if the coil was charged with 12.4 volts, the contacts should be closed, and the motor should be trying to turn over as soon as I turn the key, which it doesn’t—so I'm leaning towards demon.

Next, I decided to test the circuit as it exists on the bike. I plugged the starter relay back in, connected the red terminal to G/V by inserting it into the back of the plug, and then touched the motor with the black terminal. It read 0 volts when the motor was on, which is normal. I then pressed the starter button, and the bike turned over—something that would normally be expected, yet it's something that hasn't happened in years. I pressed the starter button again, and it turned over once more. And again, I hit the button, and the starter motor turned.

The only things that changed were wires shifting while I was poking around with the voltmeter and disconnecting and reconnecting the starter relay. If I just solved the issue, I’m going to be sick. :green

Next steps are to wiggle that area of wires around and see if I can recreate the 12.4-volt readings or spot a short. Otherwise, if my bike’s fixed, then it was a demon all along that just decided to leave. I also went back and tested the voltage between G/V and R/M, and it's 0 volts now. The culprit is either a short or a demon, and I'm starting to think demon.
 
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The coil of the relay needs more then 12.4V, it needs 12.4 V of sufficient amperage. Disconnect the connector and place a small 12 V lightbulb across the 2 wires and hit the starter button. If the bulb lights, the circuit is good.
 
The coil of the relay needs more then 12.4V, it needs 12.4 V of sufficient amperage. Disconnect the connector and place a small 12 V lightbulb across the 2 wires and hit the starter button. If the bulb lights, the circuit is good.
Yeah, I need to buy a test light eventually..

Alright, I figured it out. At first, I thought there was a short because I was moving the wire harness on the right side of the battery. It's a tangle of wires, including the circuit for the starter solenoid, the main fuses, fuse box, tail lights, etc. Even when routed correctly, it's a bit of a mess.
1724448060156.png
Moving this section of the harness seemed to affect the voltage readings on the G/V wire, and the bike’s ability to turn over appeared to depend on their position. I suspected a pinched wire, so I checked to ensure nothing was caught or pulled, but the bike starting remained intermittent.

While examining the diagram, I noticed that there was this illusive "injection relay." I searched for any unidentified black boxes near the battery and realized that one of those black boxes was tip-over sensor was mounted to a plastic piece shared by the fuse box, which also doubles as a retaining clip for the battery. The tip-over sensor was mounted upside down.
1724449851825.png
I'm relieved to have found the problem, but if I had been relying on this bike, I would have perished months ago. GPzPop's intuition was spot on.
.
 
Good for you on your due dilligence :thumbup
 
so the bike would have run if it was rubber side up?
good catch!
 
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