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Negative Helimot Reviews?

Hey L2 if you want fresh meat go look at the new suit being sold on the gear thread. He claims that his stuff is CE Approved. ;)

Funny how easy it is to question the cheap stuff. We should expect the same and much better answers when someone is asking 6 times the price discussed in that thread. There is only one way to know serious differences between designs, materials, specs, and final products, and that is to measurably test them. The results, as shown by Ride Magazine don't always end-up with top spenders being top performers., and the occasional cheap diamond show up now and then too. You couldn't know they exist without the numbers, and you couldn't be more surprised with Dainese and Astars record of poor performance in their high-end pieces either.

Did I actually say "has these been tested"?:laughing
 
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So, except for Customer service, I guess my $800 list AGV is the tits. While it has worn through over the shoulder protection. No seams break and I have not broken my shoulder and, in the last lowside, it would pass tech to race.

Cool. I can get a couple more and keep different colors for my moods.
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I hope their suits are better built than their website...sheesh

Ps..i know they are.

Speak Engrish, mf'er! :laughing

I used to have an old Kushitani jacket that said something in Engrish such as "WE ARE SAFETY FOND RIDER'S SPIRIT" or something literally translated like that (which doesn't work for Japanese to English).

I think all the high-end suits are a great choice, it's the low-budget stuff I'd be worried about. Helimot has built a big fanbase in this region for a reason so they must be doing something right.
 
I had an old AGV and Fieldsheer suit that held up great in two 50mph lowsides..no seams breaking. But those were made in Italy i believe. ALot of the new suits are made in China and elsewhere where quality has been questionable. There's no doubt Helimot makes a great suit...I talked to a EMT friend of mine, who's job is cutting leathers off downed riders, and he mentioned Helimot because not only were the riders who wore those in better shape than other brands, but that cutting through his leathers was much harder. Take it for what its worth, but Helimot makes no comprimise in his suit, his name and local reputation are all over it...unlike many others.
 
The winner is the racer that crosses the finish line first, which is not always the racer with the fastest lap time.
AFM Thunderhill 2007

Check out Doug at almost 2 seconds faster. Of course, he did start from the back.

FORMULA PACIFIC
Pos Pts AFM # Lic Name Mk/Yr Best Lap
1 51 53 E STANTON, DAVID Y07 1:51:555
2 46 310 E CHANDLER, DOUG H06 1:49:777
3 42 105 E CALL, CORY S07 1:50:321
4 39 26 E EARNEST, MICHAEL S07 1:50:850
5 37 1 E RANDOLPH, JAMES S07 1:51:757
6 35 139 E SZWARC, MARTIN S07 1:50:127
 
The winner is the racer that crosses the finish line first, which is not always the racer with the fastest lap time.

So you get the point or are trying to be dense?

Comprehensive, proven performance is what matters. It is measured. You put up consistently the best lap times, as a combination of the important values, and you have a winning place. It's not the individual lap times(crashes) that matter, it's the consistent lap times, the consistently best lap times. It's not one race, it's the championship with consistent outcomes.

Thank you, drive through. :thumbup
 
So you get the point or are trying to be dense?

Comprehensive, proven performance is what matters. It is measured. You put up consistently the best lap times, as a combination of the important values, and you have a winning place. It's not the individual lap times(crashes) that matter, it's the consistent lap times, the consistently best lap times. It's not one race, it's the championship with consistent outcomes.

Thank you, drive through. :thumbup

I don't know about you, but like Zen said, this metaphor can absolutely be applied to the performance of Helimot suits. :) They have CONSISTENTLY kept folks safe, and have a record of PROVEN PERFORMANCE in arriving at CONSISTENT OUTCOMES (e.g. riders walking away from wrecks). :) No?
 
So you get the point or are trying to be dense?

Comprehensive, proven performance is what matters. It is measured. You put up consistently the best lap times, as a combination of the important values, and you have a winning place. It's not the individual lap times(crashes) that matter, it's the consistent lap times, the consistently best lap times. It's not one race, it's the championship with consistent outcomes.


Which is basically the argument all us pro-Helimot folks on this thread have been making all along, i.e., that tests, numbers, speculation, drivel is not important. Proven performance is what matters and Helimot's suits have that in spades; not just in one crash, but hundreds of them across hundreds of satisfied customers. Helmut earned his reputation by selling suits that do what they're supposed to do.

I could give a rats a$$ about what some scientist in a lab says about whether his armor has the Betty Crocker seal of approval or not. I can see with my own eyes how it performs.
 
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I own Helimot gloves, so don't jump my nuts. The guy has many loyal followers who are amazingly dense and combative on the internets. Helmut himself is quite cool, the rest of the staff and the customer service has left me unimpressed for the most part. Not terrible though. My two cents--

I don't have reason to believe his suits are any better or worse than the other comparable US made custom suits. They surely are on the expensive end though. Dude has North Kalifornia living expenses to pay and I suppose that plays a role. If I lived near his shop I'd consider his suits to build a relationship and support local business, but I would bring in the Tpro armor for him to install. I prefer the scientific approach to the "Racer X crashed at 100mph/put your hand under this pad so I can hammer it." At any rate in my position I can't justify the extra $$ compared to say a Barnacle Bill.

Vanson suits are very expensive too, but they are pretty legendary. You are paying for a name in part. They're shipping out some business to central America, don't know if it's the high end stuff or if it will make a difference. But rest assured the savings will not be passed on and prices on the Starboyz jacket you want for Christmas will remain high :laughing

Also how good your custom suit is depends on you. In the end they will do what you ask. You pick the armor for instance. And the more complicated designs will most probably fall apart more easily with more stitches and such. And my next suit isn't going to have much of that stretch Kevlar junk. You do NOT want to slide on that for even a split second. If you don't want to take l2i's word for it, I've crash tested it and have the scars :D
 
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Do all of your Helimot lovers think that Helimot is the only one that gets "hundreds of rider crashes" to use for research and suit improvement?

Come on, are you telling me that Dainese doesn't learn anything from the crashes of their motogp riders? I would go a step further and even suggest that these bigger companies might even have actual engineers researching the impacts and absorption of various materials to optimize their suits. Resources that Helimot simply does not have.

All this blind Helimot love is making me want to go back to work....it's that bad.:wtf
 
Just one comment. We all know how $$$ it is to live in the bay area and if you have spoken to Helmut about such issue I am quite sure he will say they don't make much on the sale of the suit. I've spoken to him about these issue for a very long time. I've ridden with him for a long time through long journeys and this guy doesn't flaunt $$$. Hell I had to buy him 2 Mikey D's apple pies just for him to have lunch. We'll that was my treat :p. My point is that the people think just because the cost of a Helimot leathers is within the $1700-2000. He doesn't make any major profit from it. He lives within his means.

On his business philosophy he like any wise and conservative business owner he maximizes on the amount of material that is available without compromising on the quality of the product. He get so much leather samples from manufacturers from China and Pakistan (this is a whole other drama by itself) and he mostly buys his leathers from Canada and not from one supplier alone. I've seen him reject a roll of leathers because it was not up to his spec (this maybe one reason for some to complain of the lead time). I've seen and touched samples of different armor and to be fair some are good but they also have their bad. Putting aside that I personally know Helmut very well doesn't make me a default fan. And helmut knows that very well but I wear a Helimot suit and their gear because it works for me and it works very well.
 
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Just one comment. We all know how $$$ it is to live in the bay area and if you have spoken to Helmut about such issue I am quite sure he will say they don't make much on the sale of the suit. I've spoken to him about these issue for a very long time.

Oh yeah even if he's making boat loads of cash by charging more than pretty much any other custom leather maker in the area, the least he can do is not rub it in your face don't you think? I'd consider that just common business sense :p
 
What about supporting Local vendors?? I mean shit...go out and buy a Dainese, Kushitani, or other Asian/Paki brand if you think the quality is as good, some are...but there is ALOT to be said for being able to have your suit hand fitted, and backed up by a local guy done good...who gives a ton back into the community you can experience first hand.
 
Do all of your Helimot lovers think that Helimot is the only one that gets "hundreds of rider crashes" to use for research and suit improvement?

Come on, are you telling me that Dainese doesn't learn anything from the crashes of their motogp riders? I would go a step further and even suggest that these bigger companies might even have actual engineers researching the impacts and absorption of various materials to optimize their suits. Resources that Helimot simply does not have.

All this blind Helimot love is making me want to go back to work....it's that bad.:wtf

I think the issue is less one of design for riders crashing and more of designing a suit/armor to pass CE/beancounter costs. I won't deny it, i like my helimot suit most for 2 reasons...the apparent strength of construction (worlds above my joe rocket speedmaster suit) and the fit and finish on it. Helimot is expensive, and certainly exists in a price range where you're hitting the "money is no object" level. He's certainly not sacrificing 2/20/100$ a suit to use cheaper leather, because it's not worth it. One distinct negative review and things are going to go very badly for him.

The other thing to remember is...most of the people are using basically the same materials. With the exception of the new T-pro armor, CE approved armor seems to range from "ok" to "excellent". CE approved stuff doesn't promise that it's actual quality, as the Bike Mag people have so carefully pointed out with their own tests. Different makers, even different suits from the same maker, perform differently when put up against a battery of tests. Some very expensive suits perform very poorly.

The issue i can see occuring is a designer saying "Ok, we want to make it like so:" and a bean counter saying "Well, that would reduce our margins by X amount, so make it cheaper, use thinner leather in areas there, there and there, don't double/triple/under stitch that, add some kevlar panels there to reduce cost, etc".

I'm sure dianese does plenty of testing. The question is: How well do those lessons go from the test bed to the end product? How much is hampered by certification, cutting corners to save money, etc? How long is the time between when they discover something and when it shows up in their suits? Does it show up in all the suits? Are they going to retool their factories because there's a chance that a certain seam may split?

With helmut, i know that if he learns something, it's going to go into the very next suit/pattern that is there. Seeing the older suits against the newer ones illustrates this quite nicely. It's nice knowing that i'm getting something that was designed yesterday, for me, for my body shape, with the experience of many crashed suits, including the ones that came in yesterday behind it. That's it, really. If i crash and feel uncomfortable with the armor, i'll swap it out for some tpro stuff. But if Helmut feels comfortable laying 20 years of reputation on the line with the stuff, i'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Just one comment. We all know how $$$ it is to live in the bay area and if you have spoken to Helmut about such issue I am quite sure he will say they don't make much on the sale of the suit. I've spoken to him about these issue for a very long time.

Yep, that's why I would go for the guy making leathers on his farm in Kentucky :D Unless I lived around Helimot, then I might feel differently.

If somebody would set up shop and make CE certified suits on this side of the Atlantic, they would make my next set of leathers, without question. I don't want to deal with the overseas hassle and the way the dollar is looking these days the prices are shooting up fast too.
 
What about supporting Local vendors?? I mean shit...go out and buy a Dainese, Kushitani, or other Asian/Paki brand if you think the quality is as good, some are...but there is ALOT to be said for being able to have your suit hand fitted, and backed up by a local guy done good...who gives a ton back into the community you can experience first hand.

That is a good reason to buy from Helimot, certainly better than all the circle jerking that regularly goes on in these threads.

Tell me again about the time Jamie Hacking crashed in his Helimots...:rolleyes
 
Oh yeah even if he's making boat loads of cash by charging more than pretty much any other custom leather maker in the area, the least he can do is not rub it in your face don't you think? I'd consider that just common business sense :p


I don't get where you're coming from Willis. Do you have a Helimot? Has it been repaired by them? If not, have you had your off the rack suit repaired there? If so how much does he charge you. I've seen people bring in there AGV, Dainese, Bates, Vanson, etc suits there to be repaired and being charge at a very reasonable price.
 
Yep, that's why I would go for the guy making leathers on his farm in Kentucky :D Unless I lived around Helimot, then I might feel differently.

If somebody would set up shop and make CE certified suits on this side of the Atlantic, they would make my next set of leathers, without question. I don't want to deal with the overseas hassle and the way the dollar is looking these days the prices are shooting up fast too.

Hey more power to you. Its your $$$.

Update: If you like a guy in KY that makes your leather suits that is CE rated which means it should (for argument sake) cost the same a Helimot then would you be giving him/her/them more $$$ in their pocket since it is way cheaper cost of living there. :confused Case in point BKS leathers cost approx $2K that was back in 04.
 
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Slight tangent but Kushitani has a facility down in LA and if you make an appointment, they're known to do fitting work for you on the spot. :thumbup
 
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