Your thoughts on gun handling (poll) *a bit long winded...*

[tzrider]

You feel the need to carry a loaded weapon in your house at all times? Have you considered MOVING?

Or mental help?

 

[dsmpilot]

That's when you pull the knife out of your boot.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

Where do I stand?

Rule #1: All guns are always loaded.

ahhh the age old debate....
i dont subscribe to this.
i believe a gun is loaded until proven for 100% sure that it is unloaded, at which point it becomes a paperweight.

I had to stop there. A magazine is not known as a clip, unless you don't know what you are talking about.



http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=270656

yea i knew the gun grammar police would come get me on that one. i'm well aware of the difference, i wrote both because some people are not aware of this difference. but thanx anyway

Rule #1--all guns are always loaded.
--Col. Jeff Cooper

I live in Oakland, and I've got a PM9, too. If you're going to carry, 1. get trained, and 2., carry in Condition 1 or red mode. When you need a gun, you need it stat, and needing to get a round in the chamber under potentially-lethal stress increases the likelihood of a fumble or misfire.

At home, I keep my ready gun loaded and ready to go, in a Gunvault mini-safe mounted on the wall within easy reach. If there's trouble in the hood, I have both a belt slide holster and a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster (which was under $20) for that PM9. When it's safely holstered, it just points down at the ground, not at my leg or my lover, and in any case, the holster prevents any crap in my pocket or a fold of cloth from getting inside the trigger guard. I think it's reasonable that your GF doesn't want to get muzzled, so find ways to avoid it.

as for "personally i think a civilian carrying around a gun in "red" status is likely taking more risk than it is preventing - no matter where that civilian is be it their house or on the street."
With training and the exercise of good judgement, I think anyone of sound mind is qualified to carry loaded. And in many states, it's legal with a concealed carry permit. I've got a Utah CCW permit myself, valid in 30 states. Again, if you're educated about gun safety and technique, it's fine.

all good points.

tho someone mentioned carrying 'cocked and locked' ie, round in chamber, hammer back, but safety on. while i can of course see the advantage to having a HANDgun ready to use with one hand... i just cant quite swallow the fact that with the gun like this, a bullet is in the chamber, the firing pin has spring tension on it.... even w/ a safety on, i still mentally have trouble trusting that safety... as it is pretty much the only thing preventing that bullet from firing.




i was told the military base color codes by a friend who was in Iraq on a base. i figured it was standard (?)
either way, i agree this is a better list of gun positions:

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

but there is a problem with this 0 thru 4 condition list as some guns do not have the ability to be "cocked and locked" which a Kahr PM9 does NOT have. there is no external safety on the PM9, which is why i carry it "amber" instead of "red", as w/o a safety, red is WAY to dangerous to carry IMO, and carrying "green" is a joke.





as suspected, there is a wide variety of differing opinion on this matter.
glad to see that.

 

[tzrider]

ahhh the age old debate....
i dont subscribe to this.
i believe a gun is loaded until proven for 100% sure that it is unloaded, at which point it becomes a paperweight.

That doesn't cover the scenario where the gun is in your pocket and pointed at your girlfriend. Does she know she may have a loaded weapon aimed at her?

 

[Nemo Brinker]

Corky,
You aren't trusting a safety on the PM9--it's a DAO (double-action only) pistol, and (like a Glock) there aren't any external safeties to put on or off--the heavy double-action trigger pull is what stands between you and firing the gun. If you aren't ready to stomach that fact, it's your choice, of course!

It took several intense training courses before I felt comfy having a loaded gun in my house, and I'm still getting used to the idea of carrying "hot". If you're going to carry, though, IMO it's most efficient to carry ready to go, red, hot, condition 1, etc. (in case of hand injuries, or grappling with an attacker before I can get to my piece). Your training and safe gun handling is the real safety, not a mechanical device. And yes, I've trained in avoiding (and performing) hand-to-hand gun takeaways.

 

[afm199]

Nemo has it. I have a HK double action auto and it takes PULL to fire it. If I have it in the house it is available, loaded, a round chambered and safety on. To fire it, safety goes off and pull the trigger hard. I mean hard, I do it with two fingers on the firing range ( and with same accuracy as a single action. )

Again, you have a weapon in the house... With kids it needs to be locked up. With adults, I keep it ready to fire. Frankly if someone breaks into the house when you are sleeping you will be lucky to find the loaded weapon and get it pointed, much less have to chamber a round.

I NEVER POINT a weapon at anyone regardless of the weapon status. Unloaded, no magazine, it NEVER is pointed at another person. Many people have been shot by unloaded weapons. If I come into someone's house and see a weapon, I will either leave or ask to verify it is not loaded. Your word is nor worth shit. People forget.

Anywant, in the house the weapon is always loaded and ready to fire. Safety on.

The HK VP70 is a weapon that people with weak hands actually can not fire. The trigger pull is significant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_VP70

 

[racergirl]

I was in the military and never heard of a "color code" for weapons.

yeah they do... i just got back form the range...usually thats the only time you will hear someone using those terms, most arent so techincal about it.

I dont even keep my own guns at my house

 

[SpeedyCorky]

Corky,
You aren't trusting a safety on the PM9--it's a DAO (double-action only) pistol, so there aren't any safeties to put on or off--the heavy double-action trigger pull is what stands between you and firing the gun. If you aren't ready to stomach that fact, it's your choice, of course!

It took several intense training courses before I felt comfy having a loaded gun in my house, and I'm still getting used to the idea of carrying "hot". If you're going to carry, though, IMO it's most efficient to carry ready to go, red, hot, condition 1, etc. (in case of hand injuries, or grappling with an attacker before I can get to my piece). And yes, I've trained in avoiding (and performing) hand-to-hand gun takeaways.

perhaps i should have focused this debate about carrying when at home or a otherwise 'suspected to be fairly safe' location.
if i had a proper holster so that when wearing it the gun is NOT pointed at me or anyone sitting next to me, then i could at least considering carrying "red" when outside the house.... but for inside the locked and suspected to be fairly safe house, IMO carrying "red" is *as said* more risky than the potential benefits.

That doesn't cover the scenario where the gun is in your pocket and pointed at your girlfriend. Does she know she may have a loaded weapon aimed at her?

that or a loaded weapon aimed at my leg. and yea thats how/why this topic was started.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

Nemo has it. I have a HK double action auto and it takes PULL to fire it. If I have it in the house it is available, loaded, a round chambered and safety on. To fire it, safety goes off and pull the trigger hard. I mean hard, I do it with two fingers on the firing range ( and with same accuracy as a single action. )

Again, you have a weapon in the house... With kids it needs to be locked up. With adults, I keep it ready to fire. Frankly if someone breaks into the house when you are sleeping you will be lucky to find the loaded weapon and get it pointed, much less have to chamber a round.

I NEVER POINT a weapon at anyone regardless of the weapon status. Unloaded, no magazine, it NEVER is pointed at another person. Many people have been shot by unloaded weapons. If I come into someone's house and see a weapon, I will either leave or ask to verify it is not loaded. Your word is nor worth shit. People forget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_VP70

again, PM9 has no external safety.
no kids in the house.
agreed if shit hits the fan, cocking back the slide is a BIG step to do while the shit is flying, but again as said, its a risk VS reward decision when in your locked house. usually there is at least 1 or 2 locked doors between me and the outside world, so i *should* have time to pull that slide back.


"many people have been shot by unloaded weapons."
now there is a quote

agreed no ones word is worth SHIT. whenever a gun is picked up, first thing that I do is keep it in a safe direction and check to make sure it is not loaded. FIRST THING. even if i am the one who put it down and i am the one to pick it up 10 seconds later; i still check.

 

[fawndog]

Ammunition cooking off in a fire in a magazine is less dangerous because it requires confinement in a chamber to generate high pressures during burning.

Sure, everything is less dangerous with distance, but less dangerous to a firefighter ? Not really a decent argument for keeping the chamber emtpy. Whatever it's splitting hairs.


If you can't shoot with the other hand, or rack the slide one handed you better learn how. It's not like you need special tools :|

 

[Aluisious]

If you can't shoot with the other hand, or rack the slide one handed you better learn how. It's not like you need special tools :|

You can't rack a slide as reliably with one hand as you can with two, unless you happen to have a metal bench handy and sights tall enough to be used as melee weapons.

The sights against the doorframe/furniture trick can fail or jam easily due to a slip.

I'd just prefer to carry in a holster, chambered, with the safety on. Less to go wrong. I never carry anyway, except at an action shooting event.

 

[fawndog]

You can't rack a slide as reliably with one hand as you can with two, unless you happen to have a metal bench handy and sights tall enough to be used as melee weapons.

The sights against the doorframe/furniture trick can fail or jam easily due to a slip.

Dude it is about options after optimal, I use two mitts 99.9% of the time.

 

[Aluisious]

I agree

 

[Dr. Evil]

A gun that doesn't have rounds available to fire isn't much good.

 

[antipathy]

Charlie, I think your girlfriend has the reasonable expectation of safety in her own home. It sounds like you are not really carrying your weapons in a manner considerate of her presence or safety if your gun is at any time pointing at her or at yourself. Loaded, cocked or not. It's kind of rude to walk around like an armed badass when you know the manner in which you do it makes her uneasy.

I suggest you pull the gun out of your fucking pants pocket and go buy a proper holster to carry it. I would also consider a shoulder holster + beer stained wife beater combo, as that will show neighbors and peters peeping in your window that you are not fucking around.

Also, does your g/f like guns or does this "pistola pants" situation cause her to dislike them? If she lacks range training, take her to a range and buy her some gun classes or arrange a ladies range night with your fellow barfettes. Tons o biches in this joint like to shoot and we can help her be more at ease with a plinker.

If your lady is not firearm savvy and is attacked while you are not at home, neither you nor your unloaded gun can help her. Home safety should be a team effort.

 

[Nemo Brinker]

Pistola pants FTW!!!!

Buy a decent holster: http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0040091290585a.shtml

If she wants to go to the range with other women, my GF and I (and other BARFettes? Wanna shoot my guns, a?) can take her. I've got a .22, a couple of .38 revolvers, and some 9mm semiautos that are great to start with. Antipathy's right--unless both of you collaborate on defense, she's SOL when trouble comes knocking. And if you're muzzling her all the time at home, that doesn't exactly help.

 

[ScorpioVI]

:|

 

[Eisernkreuz]

don't know about that, the unmistakeable noise of a shotgun action can be quite a deterant

That's a very common misconception

 

[Eisernkreuz]

but again as said, its a risk VS reward decision when in your locked house. usually there is at least 1 or 2 locked doors between me and the outside world, so i *should* have time to pull that slide back.

You should also have enough time to run to your room, grab your loaded gun with a round chambered and be prepared to defend yourself and your loved ones.

And you avoid the added RISK of carrying a gun around, making your gf uneasy, potentially fucking up chambering a round under pressure, and looking like an urban ninja around your house.

 

[planegray]

first I'd like to say thank you Charlie, for braving the sink again !

On the topic;
Having grown up hunting, I understand clearly what a weapon can/ will do. I CANNOT point a weapon at anything I don't want dead.

One of the factors in choosing a pistol, to be used as protection, is the safety mechanism. I really like the safety on the Walther ppk. It is easy to use, and failsafe (and I do operationally check it out regularly). With a good safety, I feel comfortable keeping a shell in the chamber.