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First time riding with a newbie and he went down

XQuest said:
Yeah, but doing lock to lock turns with clips ons is kinda tricky. MSF is far better than nothing but is way lacking. Seriously, riding is so freaken complicated that unless I ride the twistie loop day after day I forget certain things or worse, start up bad habits. We need a far more structured MSF course with the top layer being coached by riding behind the student to observe exactly what is going on, on a known twistie course. Then again and again.

The real problem is attracting the experienced and skilled teachers. Most don't wanna teach, just wanna ride. Guess excellent pay might help. :)
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Bye scout. You frickin twit.
 
GotSick said:
The MSF Course is a GREAT! way to get your license with no skills. They have you riding 250's and smaller bikes doing all of the DMV test basically. You go out take the written and wallaaa now you have your M1 License and can go buy a liter bike no problem and go crash.

I recommend taking the MSF Course and then taking it again with the bike you buy.
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:laughing:thumbup Yeah my ex passed the MSF course, got her M1 and had no clue of how to ride...right down to forgeting to pull in the clutch to stop. This lead to her stalling out and flopping over while not having the skill to get her leg out befor she crashed.She was laying there pinned under her bike while I ran across the parking lot to save her. It took me weeks of parking lot drills before I could even tow her around unpopulated neighborhoods.

The MSF is a great way to start But by no means is the end all in motorcycle skills training. A top of the class MSF'er is a good start but the bottom of the class (pass them just to get rid of 'em) riders are not ready for the street!
 
I was on a ride on Sunday with some BARF folks. Even though some of are n00bs, I still let them go ahead of me. I don't want to slow anyone down and they knew the road better than I did (plus probably have a bit more guts than I do). If you want to go faster than me, so be it. I ride at my own pace and I'm cool with being last (on in this case, 2nd to last). And usually people are cool about waiting up for me down the road.
 
Well, I wouldn't beat yourself up about this.

He might have been a noob, but he went out on his own.

Unless he said, "I'm over my head, can you take me back the safest way possible," all you can do is lead him out.
 
tzrider said:
For some guys, this is a pretty good way to make sure they do try to keep up.
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+1

It's hard to hold back. I think I'd got a pretty level head, but adrenaline gets pumping and you start taking risks. I did it when I was newer and riding with my brother. It's hard not to get competitive. I'm glad I never hurt myself.

Noobs don't understand how much besides pointing the bike in the right direction is involved in going fast around corners (or at least I didn't). They will watch you and think, "well, if he can make the turn then so can I".

Edit: Don't beat yourself up about it. Just a tip for the future. in the end, everyone is responsible for themselves out there, noob or vet.
 
I don't understand the idea of "towing a newbie" and observe him in the mirror. I find it much easier to observe by riding behind someone.
 
I have yet to get on 25 on my motorcycle. It sounds like 25 is perfect to go a little fast, based on the posts in this forum. Any common spots where LEOs hang out? Last December I got radar'd by CHP coming towards me, going 74 in my WRX on a straight piece of 25, around 5 miles outside Hollister. No houses, no other cars, no drive ways, nothing. LEO was somewhat cool, we chatted about my car, and he wrote me up for 65 in a 55 zone.
 
We always tell the newbies to: Ride their own pace. Don't worry about keeping up. Take it easy, you won't be able to stay with us. It just doesn't sink in, they bin it if you explain it or not, that's why they are newbies.
 
Same thing happened to me this past weekend on redwood rd. Was leading a group of four. One of which was a relative newbie on a brand new CBR250. He crashed and I initially felt guilty for "towing too fast", but then I realized that he was a grown up and in charge of his right hand.
 
HappyHighwayman said:
You're not his mother. It was his lack of discipline. If you have to adjust your riding style every time somebody looks at you you are basically saying it is your responsibility to adjust your style depending on who is around, which is not true. As long as you ride safely and at your skill level, you've been sufficiently responsible.
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I don't agree that it's his lack of discipline- it's completely his lack of skill, knowledge and experience. It's not like he was riding, and someone fell in behind him and started following... that person is on their own. But when you're chatting with someone, and they ask to ride with you, the first thing I do is find out what their skills are. If I don't feel like towing an inexperienced rider around, I'll tell them I'm not comfortable towing someone with less experience at that time, please ride a safe pace, and if I get a couple of turns ahead, don't worry, I'll wait at the next stop or turn. If you're not willing to do that simple little step to help keep a newbie safe, then tell them you're just going to chill, and head out later, and then leave after them. You'll pass them at some point, throw the wave, and keep going. Considerate and helpful, and no one gets sucked in due to inexperience.

scout said:
Always a liability issue.

Connie, do what you want. Use your method. You don't need approval from anyone. I'm stating my opinion. no worries. :)

Have fun teaching!
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WHY do you keep coming BACK??? :rolleyes

Gary856 said:
I don't understand the idea of "towing a newbie" and observe him in the mirror. I find it much easier to observe by riding behind someone.
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Because what's easiest for YOU isn't what's best for the NEWBIE. They don't know the road... when you tow them, you show them where they should be in the lane, what the turn-in points are, what corners are tricky... you think a newbie is going to do really well on a deceptive decreasing radius? Not so much.
The most informative, best, oh-my-god-how-could-I-learn-so-much-in-20-miles tow I ever got in my life was 4 years ago on my birthday from tzrider... Andy willingly jumped in, and towed me up Mt. Hamilton, showing me where to start my turns... it was the BEST birthday present I have ever had, and provided the most improvement I've had in my riding at one time.
THAT'S why you tow him... you're not observing him- you're TEACHING him.
 
Gixxergirl1000 said:
Because what's easiest for YOU isn't what's best for the NEWBIE. They don't know the road... when you tow them, you show them where they should be in the lane, what the turn-in points are, what corners are tricky... you think a newbie is going to do really well on a deceptive decreasing radius? Not so much.
The most informative, best, oh-my-god-how-could-I-learn-so-much-in-20-miles tow I ever got in my life was 4 years ago on my birthday from tzrider... Andy willingly jumped in, and towed me up Mt. Hamilton, showing me where to start my turns... it was the BEST birthday present I have ever had, and provided the most improvement I've had in my riding at one time.
THAT'S why you tow him... you're not observing him- you're TEACHING him.
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Someone mentioned earlier that there's a difference between teaching a newbie how to ride on the street, and an instructor showing a new track rider the fast line on a track. The point is with a newbie the focus should be on the fundamental techniques (body position, foot placement, head/eye direction, speed management, etc.) of riding first, and you'll have an easier time observing and critiquing his technique from behind. How's a newbie suppose to follow "the line" if he can't properly execute turns yet? I followed others when I was a newbie, and I simply didn't have the bandwidth to observe their lines.
 
Gary856 said:
The point is with a newbie the focus should be on the fundamental techniques (body position, foot placement, head/eye direction, speed management, etc.) of riding first, and you'll have an easier time observing and critiquing his technique from behind. How's a newbie suppose to follow "the line" if he can't properly execute turns yet?
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Whithout going into details, I'll say this: When helping another rider, one needs to focus on the most serious problem the rider has. That day, "body position, foot placement, head/eye direction" were irrelevant, as there was something much more urgent to deal with. She describes following lines, but we covered a lot more than that. "Lines" were the final outcome of what came before and they mattered more than anything else that day.
 
russ69 said:
We always tell the newbies to: Ride their own pace. Don't worry about keeping up. Take it easy, you won't be able to stay with us. It just doesn't sink in, they bin it if you explain it or not, that's why they are newbies.
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What does "Ride your own pace" mean to a new rider?

Most new riders think that they are/were riding their own pace right up until the impact. I suggest that the termride your own pace, is hollow and holds no applicable meaning to new riders.

Are there other ways/words that can be used to communicate more effectively?
 
The most important reason for towing a noob rather than following a noob is controling the #1 reason for noob bails...their speed in any given corner. If you are towing a noob you can proceed into a corner at a speed that you are 90% sure they will be able to handle while showing them the proper line. While you might be yawning and singing in your helmet, they might be deathgripping at this speed. When you are behind a noob observing their technique you are helpless as you observe them misjudge a corner and bin it.
 
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