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Who the hell gives their 17 year old a 205 HP motorcycle?

Doobz said:
if an 18 year old can serve and die for our country then they should be offered all the other benefits of adulthood.
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18 year olds should and are able to wield weapons in the military if that's the route they choose to go with their life. That's a controlled environment (in general)

I don't agree any random 18 year old should legally be able to buy a gun in the general public.

I do think if they're old enough to serve, they should be legally able to walk into any bar and order a beer. Oh and also rent a car since I think you have to be 21 to do that. There's other things kids that are 18 don't have access to until they're a bit older, I just don't think guns should be one they do. Unless there was certification course to teach gun safety, maybe there is, gun laws aren't something I keep up to date with.
 
A lack of understanding / skill of counter-steering could also be a contributing factor and not just horsepower.

Most new and young riders tend to use their upper torso to initiate directional changes.
 
At age 41 I got a bike with more than double the power to weight ratio of any other bike I'd owned.

It 'made' me do some dumb things with the throttle in traffic until I reigned it in.

At a younger age I wouldn't have done the latter.
 
mean dad said:
I think it's pretty fuckin funny to pretend that a new rider would treat a 2fiddy ninja and a S1000RR the exact same with regards to passing ability.
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I didn’t say that.

What gave you the idea that passing ability has anything to do with the situation here? There’s no mention in the article of a pass or a witness that was getting passed.

The article says “entered a sweeping right hand curve and crossed the double yellow”. Better guesses are intentional crossing without a pass or failure to negotiate a turn. News clips and Google maps show a really gentle curve. So something like trying to short cut the corner might be more likely.
 
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stangmx13 said:
...

What gave you the idea that passing ability has anything to do with the situation here? There’s no mention in the article of a pass or a witness that was getting passed.

...
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A different article posted previously in this thread said as much

CHP says that a 17-year-old driver from Kansas was passing a car on a curve over a double yellow line and was hit head-on Ford F-350 truck.
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kmph.com

Teen motorcyclist dies in head-on collision with truck, CHP say

A teen driving a sport bike was killed after being hit by a truck on Friday.CHP received a report of a traffic accident on Auberry Road south of the Fresno Rifl
kmph.com kmph.com
 
Rider was on the wrong side of the yellow line.
This is a fact.

He was either (A) making a sketchy pass and chose poorly; or he was (B) riding over his head and entered the corner too hot and drifted wide.
These are speculations which have little do with the outcome OF THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO other than to guess why he was over there and not over here.


Both of those scenario would 100% be affected by pure speed and if you'll follow along I'll explain why:

If he's (A) risking it for the biscuit, then he's making a heroic pass and for anyone to pretend a 2fiddy inspires the same level of confidence in passing speed as an S1000RR is pretty fuckin funny (to me). A bike that has a power to weight ratio of one to one is nowhere near the level of a literal entry-level bike. On one, you simply twist the throttle and >poof< you're two zip codes ahead. On the other, you downshift a couple gears and pin it and hope the guy in the truck ahead of you doesn't step on the gas and stay in front of you. :laughing
I do not believe for a second that a driver's expectations are the same in a clapped out Honda Civic versus a rental C6.
So yes, I will emphatically state that horsepower would impact the decision of being stupid and going too fast in this case.

If he is (B) a rider with a limited skillset, then a higher horsepower bike could absolutely impact corner speed. You have to WANT to carry any kind of speed on a smaller bike and one could outride any particular corner much, much easier on a leaderbike.


Am I saying that he would not have crashed if he were on a smaller bike?
No I am not, nor have I anywhere in this thread.
Am I saying that any rider anywhere will crash if he rides a big bike?
No I am not, nor have I anywhere in this thread.


Thank you for coming to my KevTalk. Tshirts and CD's are available in the lobby.
 
mean dad said:
If he is (B) a rider with a limited skillset, then a higher horsepower bike could absolutely impact corner speed. You have to WANT to carry any kind of speed on a smaller bike and one could outride any particular corner much, much easier on a leaderbike.
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I hate you.

It's only temporary, but still....
 
stangmx13 said:
So, nothing to do with HP? Just terrible decision making abilities and/or situational awareness?
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Let the first man (or woman) who has not ridden a much higher horsepower bike different than we had ridden lower horsepower bikes cast the first stone.
 
Y'all forgot that one guy who raced r1 in afm who like never rode a bike before, at least he did it on a controlled tarmac with traffic going 1 way
 
Kurosaki said:
18 year olds should and are able to wield weapons in the military if that's the route they choose to go with their life. That's a controlled environment (in general)

I don't agree any random 18 year old should legally be able to buy a gun in the general public.

I do think if they're old enough to serve, they should be legally able to walk into any bar and order a beer. Oh and also rent a car since I think you have to be 21 to do that. There's other things kids that are 18 don't have access to until they're a bit older, I just don't think guns should be one they do. Unless there was certification course to teach gun safety, maybe there is, gun laws aren't something I keep up to date with.
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LOL now THIS can be a discussion for another day but i don't want to derail this thread
 
Climber said:
I gave some of those thought.

He crossed over into the other lane, so he was going too fast for his skills.
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Bad judgement and lack of experience (in how to recover from running over the line). I don't trust the article's contention that the rider was passing a vehicle, completely.

larry kahn said:
More HP = Get going faster quicker. Depends what his actions were leading up to crossing the double yellow.
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Gary J was killed on a low HP bike with high corner speed (and bots dots).

Enchanter said:
A lack of understanding / skill of counter-steering could also be a contributing factor and not just horsepower.

Most new and young riders tend to use their upper torso to initiate directional changes.
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...and a lack of familiarity with braking on the side of the tire, especially when headed for trouble situations.

Poor judgement and limited experience (WRT to dangerous situations) tend the be the determinants (singularly or jointly) for most single vehicle moto deaths, IMO. This includes everyone in this thread. Either one the items (judgement/ experience) will test our mortality as well. I don't think motorcyclists are unique here when categorizing skill deficiencies and judgement. Gary J's accident was not in lacking skill, it was in suspending judgement temporarily.
 
Gary856 said:
A poor rider of any age on any bike could cross the double yellow line unintentionally. It's not the age or the horsepower; it's the lack of training.
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Agree. Over the years, I've seen folks that started on big bikes, small bikes such as the baby Ninja 250 to liter to Busa. Those that have good mental approach, patience and training tend to do well, those that lack those things not so much regardless of age or horsepower. Sure, there may be factors that are out of the rider's control when shit happen moments occur but typically the rider is the one in control of how he operates his motorcycle.
 
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The same parents who give their kid a 700 hp car for their 16th birthday.
 
Not in this case.

Some parents are still hurting… among others.
 
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