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Old 05-28-2019, 06:44 PM   #31
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So I will concede you guys make some good points. Im not totally convinced but hey, its a learning curve, so thanks.
Real question here: looking at the track airbag vests, it looks to me like they arent really going to help with the collarbone issue if you go down on one shoulder because they have no protection there. I get they will help neck, head and ribcage for sure. Anybody have info on how they would or would not help with collarbone/ shoulder issues in that kind of wreck. Remember Im talking specifically about going down directly onto one shoulder, like a low side or bad high side.
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Old 05-28-2019, 06:55 PM   #32
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So I will concede you guys make some good points. Im not totally convinced but hey, its a learning curve, so thanks.
Real question here: looking at the track airbag vests, it looks to me like they arent really going to help with the collarbone issue if you go down on one shoulder because they have no protection there. I get they will help neck, head and ribcage for sure. Anybody have info on how they would or would not help with collarbone/ shoulder issues in that kind of wreck. Remember Im talking specifically about going down directly onto one shoulder, like a low side or bad high side.
my hit air has rib and shoulder protections. The airbag inflates into what basically looks like football pads. https://www.alpinestars.com/tech-air-race-airbag-system

So, there is still a risk of a certain landing, or if you put your arms out during a crash of breaking your clavicle or injuring something else, but as i have recently tested. I wasn't even SORE (well except that sprained ankle) the next day after a 2nd-3rd gear get off compared to a 5mph drop/fall down where my shoulder legit hurt.

In order to deploy the airbag needs armed and you must be going above 75kmh average speed.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:24 PM   #33
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Have you considered getting some coaching to help you with why you crash so much?
Speaking as another crasher, it's not always so easy. I was supposed to get coaching at the last Carters school. So obviously, my preparation included crashing the day before so I couldn't go. Hopefully, I'll get some coaching after I rebuild and get out to the June 15/16 Carters days.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:30 PM   #34
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So I will concede you guys make some good points. Im not totally convinced but hey, its a learning curve, so thanks.
Real question here: looking at the track airbag vests, it looks to me like they arent really going to help with the collarbone issue if you go down on one shoulder because they have no protection there. I get they will help neck, head and ribcage for sure. Anybody have info on how they would or would not help with collarbone/ shoulder issues in that kind of wreck. Remember Im talking specifically about going down directly onto one shoulder, like a low side or bad high side.
Maybe it's incorrect, but I've heard that a lot of collarbone breaks occur due to helmets jamming into the collarbone on landing. To that extend, the vests, like HitAir, prevent the impact through the neck roll.

In terms of landing on your shoulder though, the electronic Alpinestars Tech-Air and Dainese D-Air both have airbag cover extending over the shoulder joint. Those airbags will cover the collarbone and shoulder joint. And they're still in combination with standard armor in the suit.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:26 AM   #35
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:29 AM   #36
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Speaking as another crasher, it's not always so easy. I was supposed to get coaching at the last Carters school. So obviously, my preparation included crashing the day before so I couldn't go. Hopefully, I'll get some coaching after I rebuild and get out to the June 15/16 Carters days.
Hope to see you there.

Ken Hill basically ( as I understand him) feels that crashes are a failure of technique application, including, but not limited to paying attention and looking ahead.

I wouldn't know. I have only had forty or so crashes.
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:45 PM   #37
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Hope to see you there.

Ken Hill basically ( as I understand him) feels that crashes are a failure of technique application, including, but not limited to paying attention and looking ahead.

I wouldn't know. I have only had forty or so crashes.
Meh. Sometimes I'm just stupid.
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:41 PM   #38
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Hope to see you there.

Ken Hill basically ( as I understand him) feels that crashes are a failure of technique application, including, but not limited to paying attention and looking ahead.

I wouldn't know. I have only had forty or so crashes.
I'll surely be there wandering the paddock to see if I can find a coach to work with. I'm not going to be on track before that weekend, so that at least guarantees me one session...

And I would chalk most of my five crashes over the years to not paying attention to real track conditions. The latest one at Sears was tucking the front in a cold first session while headed to the apex of 3b. I, being the knucklehead that I am, kept nudging the pace up that first session, right up until I couldn't (still thought I had a sizable safety margin all the way till I lost the front, but obviously not enough accounting for the conditions).

And the on-topic part: I can say that my D-Air did it's job to protect my shoulder and collarbone. Not as immobilizing of my neck as my Hit-Air was, but I appreciated the extra shoulder padding during my slow tumbling/rolling. I don't ride at the track now without an airbag and chest protector.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:27 AM   #39
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Meh. Sometimes I'm just stupid.
That's a failure of technique application.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:29 AM   #40
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I'll surely be there wandering the paddock to see if I can find a coach to work with. I'm not going to be on track before that weekend, so that at least guarantees me one session...

And I would chalk most of my five crashes over the years to not paying attention to real track conditions. The latest one at Sears was tucking the front in a cold first session while headed to the apex of 3b. I, being the knucklehead that I am, kept nudging the pace up that first session, right up until I couldn't (still thought I had a sizable safety margin all the way till I lost the front, but obviously not enough accounting for the conditions).

And the on-topic part: I can say that my D-Air did it's job to protect my shoulder and collarbone. Not as immobilizing of my neck as my Hit-Air was, but I appreciated the extra shoulder padding during my slow tumbling/rolling. I don't ride at the track now without an airbag and chest protector.
There will be plenty of instructors to work with you. My suggestion is to use the first session to go out, get some pace eventually, and learn/relearn the track. First session balls out is not always a good idea. After the first session get some help.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:21 AM   #41
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That's a failure of technique application.
Yeah, I still remember the time I grabbed too much front brake so I didn't become a pillion rider on your bike in T4. Good times...
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:54 AM   #42
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Yeah, I still remember the time I grabbed too much front brake so I didn't become a pillion rider on your bike in T4. Good times...
That was unfortunate. But worse for you than me.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:13 AM   #43
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So I will concede you guys make some good points. Im not totally convinced but hey, its a learning curve, so thanks.
Real question here: looking at the track airbag vests, it looks to me like they arent really going to help with the collarbone issue if you go down on one shoulder because they have no protection there. I get they will help neck, head and ribcage for sure. Anybody have info on how they would or would not help with collarbone/ shoulder issues in that kind of wreck. Remember Im talking specifically about going down directly onto one shoulder, like a low side or bad high side.
I can't speak much to the vests, but at least in my suit, the shoulder protection definitely helps support the shoulder, and probably saved me from a broken collarbone one time on a hard-hit lowside. In that particular crash i don't think one of the external vests would have helped as I was still practically seated on the bike when I hit - but the "smart" airbag (as opposed to a tether) went off before my shoulder impacted. That shoulder/arm took quite the hit, on the grooved curbing, but nothing broke. Sore, but not broken.

Suit paid for itself right then because I've paid for a dislocated shoulder before, and this was much cheaper (not even getting into recovery times and misery!).
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