BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Moto > Crash Analysis


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2008, 09:34 AM   #1
austenmount
Intermediate
 
austenmount's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lafayette, CA
Motorcycles: Black 2006 Ninja 650R
Name: Austen
crashed on grizzly last night..

so last night I was trying to keep up with a guy who is faster and more skilled than I. I came into a corner too hot, got scared, locked up the rear brake, carried a skid at least 12 yards until I hit the dirt. At first I thought I was giong to lowside, but at the last minute the bike threw me off the high side. I walked away, albeit with a sprained foot, and rode my bike home with no apparent damage other than some minor scrapes and bent bars.

What should I have done a) once I knew i was coming in too hot? b) once I had already locked the rear brake up?

Any other comments? One guy said I shouldnt have even had my foot near the rear brake . . . i think ill post a different thread on correct cornering technique...
austenmount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:05 AM   #2
TimDC2x
AFM #825
 
TimDC2x's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: F4i, SV650, GSXR600
Name:
Trail braking the front woulda saved you (as would leaning further), but it takes some practice to get comfortable with.

Regardless, using the rear in a panic situation is usually a bad idea for newer riders, unless you're already in teh dirt, then all you have left is the rear.

Last edited by TimDC2x; 06-27-2008 at 10:07 AM..
TimDC2x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:16 AM   #3
TeeSnob
神の憤りを恐れなさい
 
TeeSnob's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
Name: Tee...
try not to use the rear brake...

you should ride your own ride.. and set up the right speed for the corner

Dc Wong Said " I'd rather go in a corner slow and come out fast than go in a corner fast and come out dead"
__________________
Mother is God in the eyes of a child!
RIP Troy Taylor 3/22/08, RIP Adam 4/4/08
.●/
/▌
/ \

You stayed with me when I was doing wrong
So why'd you leave me when I started doin right?

http://www.motorbikevietnam.com/hochiminhtrailride.htm
TeeSnob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:31 AM   #4
louemc
Veteran
 
louemc's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calif Sierra
Motorcycles: 05 Kawi ZX10R
Name:
Ditto what TeeSnob and Doc Wong said,

Deal with the real mistake first, you have no way of fixing a wrong, until you fix the one that gives birth to all the possible wrongs.

Your on a public road, ride like it has an un-ending stream of hazzards to cope with. Don't try to keep up with someone else.

Glad to hear you didn't get mangled in you biff. That's a real rarity.
louemc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:33 AM   #5
FoolishMortal
Gary J: Ride in Peace
 
FoolishMortal's Avatar
 
Contributor +++

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Benicia
Motorcycles: F800s
Name: Atticus
The old saying:

Look, lean, believe...
__________________
Fun: Riding a slow bike fast.
Torture: Riding a fast bike slow.
FoolishMortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:36 AM   #6
RhythmRider
Still Rhythm Rydin'
 
RhythmRider's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2821744
Barf Brick Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Motorcycles: S1000R, SV650N
Name: Aaron
Right on, Tee. Riding your own ride is the key to avoiding situations like this. Once the rear brake is locked and panic has set in, there's really not much you can do, because your brain is not in a good state to handle the situation. It all depends on the corner, but usually the best options are:

1. Try to make the corner - push the inside bar and pray.
2. Stand up the bike and brake as hard as you can.

In both cases, oncoming traffic will be an issue, because if you are truly going into the turn too fast, you will blow the double yellow (edit: only in right turns. in lefts, you will go off the road), and at that point, the situation is out of your hands. That is the main reason that riding your own pace is so important on the street. Death can wait around any corner, and all it takes is one mistake like this. If your friend is going faster than you are comfortable with, you need to be able to recognize that and make no effort to keep up.

Last edited by RhythmRider; 06-27-2008 at 10:42 AM..
RhythmRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:39 AM   #7
Spec-ECU
required protocol
 
Spec-ECU's Avatar
 
SBK Slut / AMA #3287659
Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2014
Contributor ++ 1%
BrotoGP

Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Lorenzo
Motorcycles: 66 Suzuki K15 . 07 Triumph Speed Triple . 09 Yamaha R1 . 05 MV Agusta F4
Name: Dennis
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolishMortal View Post
The old saying:

Look, lean, believe...
That's on-point too.

In my case, I couldn't quite get to the "believing" part until I got on the track (no, this isn't another "take it to the track" reply), where I felt more comfortable taking that leap of faith compared to the street.

But once I started believing (god, this reads so dramatic ), applied itself right to the street.
__________________
BrotoGP Podcast
Road racing talk.
By BARFers, for BARF.


RiderzBlog | Z≤ Track Days
Spec-ECU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:50 AM   #8
RhythmRider
Still Rhythm Rydin'
 
RhythmRider's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2821744
Barf Brick Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Motorcycles: S1000R, SV650N
Name: Aaron
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinncere View Post
That's on-point too.

In my case, I couldn't quite get to the "believing" part until I got on the track (no, this isn't another "take it to the track" reply), where I felt more comfortable taking that leap of faith compared to the street.

But once I started believing (god, this reads so dramatic ), applied itself right to the street.
Just to clarify, going to the track and learning how to lean the bike as far as it'll go doesn't make it any safer to do that on the street.
RhythmRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 12:36 PM   #9
ThumperX
Veteran
 
ThumperX's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2817058
BARFie winner 2014 & 2017
Contributor++++++++ +++++++++++++++ ++++++++++3%
Barf Roadside Angel and more!

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NB
Motorcycles: Different strokes Big Bore and little bore Thumpers
Name:
Which turn? Grizzly Peak has a few hungry corners, someone who rides the road regularly and knows the road well can take it hotter than a first time visitor.
The first turn past the wall heading towards Claremont has a lot of notch marks on it's belt.

I abide by slow and smooth
__________________
JOIN: AMA District 36 CORVA
check out the new Citybike.com
PETS BEING ASSHOLES
Treat a feral woman with respect, once trust is earned she may start bringing you food.
You go where you look!
HOHO
ThumperX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 12:57 PM   #10
nuclearalex
oki hill
 
nuclearalex's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: san jose, ca
Motorcycles: sold 06 shadow aero, 02 954rr sold, 06 crf230
Name: alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by austenmount View Post
so last night I was trying to keep up with a guy who is faster and more skilled than I. I came into a corner too hot, got scared, locked up the rear brake, carried a skid at least 12 yards until I hit the dirt. At first I thought I was giong to lowside, but at the last minute the bike threw me off the high side. I walked away, albeit with a sprained foot, and rode my bike home with no apparent damage other than some minor scrapes and bent bars.

What should I have done a) once I knew i was coming in too hot? b) once I had already locked the rear brake up?

Any other comments? One guy said I shouldnt have even had my foot near the rear brake . . . i think ill post a different thread on correct cornering technique...
hi, fellow noob, I am glad this ended the way it did. During the BARF bash party i picked up a free motorcycle magazine at the MDK dealership. In that magazine there was a story of a 22yo noob that died in the crash just like the one you described! It happened somewhere in the santa cruz mountains, the noob was lagging behind a group of more experienced riders and speed up too much on a straightaway in order to catch up. then he couldnt handle it in the turn.

The moral of the story is to all parties:
noobs like us should be lagging and be proud of it.

experienced riders knowing that they are riding with noobs should be considerate and ride slowly or let the noobs to be in the lead and follow them (but give noobs enough distance).

Anyways, in your case you are lucky! unlike that 22yo.
nuclearalex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 01:11 PM   #11
bmer97
Veteran
 
bmer97's Avatar
 
Contributor +

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Almost Heaven, WVirginia
Motorcycles: 2004 BMW R1150R Roadster
Name: T
Quote:
Originally Posted by austenmount View Post
I came into a corner too hot, got scared, locked up the rear brake, carried a skid at least 12 yards until I hit the dirt. At first I thought I was giong to lowside, but at the last minute the bike threw me off the high side. .................What should I have done a) once I knew i was coming in too hot? b) once I had already locked the rear brake up?
You probably high sided due to releasing the locked rear brake. If you lock up the rear brake, keep it locked up until you stop.

Read/study/practice: David Hough's Proficient Motorcycling Vol 1 and 2.

Ride your own ride. Riding with competitive buddies is way overrated. I rarely do it!

__________________
And I've seen you at the corners and cafes it seems
Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme

https://youtu.be/CrGOs1a1lOk
bmer97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 01:30 PM   #12
pahhhoul
poserific!
 
pahhhoul's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: May 2008
Location: OakTOWN
Motorcycles: 97 Duc900SS CR
Name: P A U L
OP, glad to know that your ok and that nothing isn't broken.
Glad that you're taking this as a learning experience.

Last night while I was riding Redwood Road I seen in my rear view a single headlight, quite a ways back. I was riding my normal pace and seen that the light was a bike that was catching up a bit.
I didn't even try to notice what kind of bike it was.
I thought about speeding up for a half a second, but didn't want to as I wasn't in a race.
So I pulled to the right side of the road, slowed down to about 20mph and waved the rider by.

It was a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRNelson View Post
...Harley-Davidson Sportster! Crap! I can't let a Harley pass a Ducati can I?...
Although I didn't think to myself "I can't let a Harley pass a Ducati can I?", especially since I was geared in full leathers.
As I seen the rider pass me by wearing nothing but a helmet, jeans, t-shirt, boots and using up the whole road, I just laughed.
I kept my 20mph pace for about 30 seconds before going back to my pace.
I'm glad I did as I enjoyed my ride and ended up doing Redwood Rd a couple of more times before heading home.
pahhhoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 03:39 PM   #13
austenmount
Intermediate
 
austenmount's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lafayette, CA
Motorcycles: Black 2006 Ninja 650R
Name: Austen
all good advice

thanks for the good advice guys. As for which turn, damn, it wasnt even the turn that was the problem, I probably could have taken the turn without braking at all, my problem was that i got scared, locked the rear brake up a long way before the turn.

Any way, it was a short left hand turn after a decently long straightaway. If you turn right on grizzly from fish ranch road, its after the right hand turn with the turn off around the corner (where cars sit to watch the sunset, drink, smoke etc). Its a decent ways before the wall, even before the first available right you can take into some park. That aws a poor description. But anyway, it wasn't the turn that got me, I believe it was my own misuse of the brakes, coming in too hot and too much rear brake.

i have a bad habit of locking up the rear brake in panic situations. The first time i ever rode (it was a dirtbike) i didnt know the foot brake existed and grabbed a handful of front brake, went down giong about 50 in shorts and a t-shirt on a gravel road. Ever since my reactions are averse to heavy front braking--causing me to overuse the rear brake, putting me in situations like the one last night...
austenmount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 05:05 PM   #14
quietman
Rookie
 
quietman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: novato,ca
Motorcycles: 2009DRZ400sm '04 DL1000 ,'15 R3 Racebike.
Name: steve
Try going to an empty parking lot and practice braking. Get used to how your bike feels with the front locked up and how much lever you need to get it to lock and then back off a bit. Later you can add some rear brake and get used to using both.
More front+less rear
less front+more rear.
With time you'll get your confidence in your braking back.
quietman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 08:41 PM   #15
flying_hun
Adverse Selection
 
flying_hun's Avatar
 
AMA #: 281672
BARF Admin
BARFie Winner 2010, 2014 & 2017
Contributor ++++++++++++++++++ ++++

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orinda, CA
Motorcycles: A hot red Italian named Sophia! Versys - three of 'em!
Name:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeSnob View Post
Doc Wong Said " I'd rather go in a corner slow and come out fast than go in a corner fast and come out dead"
Doc may have said it, but he got it from Stirling Moss.

OP, have you taken the MSF?
__________________
Kurt

BARF Terms of Service
TheFlyinghun Blog
Tenth Annual BARF Fall Rally - Hawthorne


Quote:
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
- Dalai Lama
flying_hun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.