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Old 04-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by louemc View Post

And...How you place your foot on the peg,is critical, and with the correctly placed foot, a pavemrnt touch would also be possible at the apex...

But you still have two options 1. (get this started early) [B]Loft the front wheel[B]..(this is rear wheel steering,now)
You missed the point Lou, as is often the case when you go into your typical patting yourself on the back mode and putting other people down; most who've you never even met or ridden with.

I meant having my foot OFF THE PEG and touching down on the street while cornering like the posted SM track images showed. That is what Corndog is talking about and I completely agree with him; doing that you're risking a broken ankle.

Are you suggesting pulling a wheelie on purpose before or during a corner apex?

Keep putting that kind of ridiculous crap out there Lou, you're doing BARF a real service with that kind of macho nonsense.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:45 PM   #62
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Chris, you know none of what you're talking about has anything to do with the tentative rider who was dangling both feet while riding his brand new adventure bike at 10 - 20 mph towards the Bay Bridge. He was clearly uncomfortable, and would have been much more in control had he kept his eyes up and his feet on the pegs.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:58 PM   #63
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You missed the point Lou, as is often the case when you go into your typical patting yourself on the back mode and putting other people down; most who've you never even met or ridden with.

I meant having my foot OFF THE PEG and touching down on the street while cornering like the posted SM track images showed. That is what Corndog is talking about and I completely agree with him; doing that you're risking a broken ankle.

Are you suggesting pulling a wheelie on purpose before or during a corner apex?

Keep putting that kind of ridiculous crap out there Lou, you're doing BARF a real service with that kind of macho nonsense.

Corndog and I agree and think alike. He doesn't come up with "You missed the point Lou" and if you would quote my full post instead of cherry picking to put a different slant on it...that would make it plainer.

In Your case I'm not suggesting a wheelie...While turning. That is something to learn in the dirt...And you haven't.

After you (well someone) learns it on the sketchy surface of dirt, the pavement (no matter how rough) being more consistent than dirt, that makes pavement easier.

What I post is only ridiculous to riders that don't/haven't done, what Corndog and myself have, so it isn't/hasn't been a part of their world.

The riders that have done what Corndog and myself have..know what we are talking about..
They have lived it...There is no debate.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:17 PM   #64
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Me and Lou. That has a nice ring to it. I'm a lifetime, sportsman amateur. But I'd do know and have ridden with some local and National level Pros. And one thing they all beat into my head, was, if at all possible, keep your feet on the pegs, and stand up more. I tend to sit down more than I should when I ride in the dirt. In fact , years ago, one of them suggested taking the seat off my dirt bike to force myself to stand up more.

Here's an example. If you watch World Superbike or any race class that races in the rain. Watch them when the bikes start stepping out in the back. They stand up, when things get hinky, and are weighting the foot pegs to make the bike hook back up. It works on the dirt, on the street, in the rain, and in the dry.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:52 AM   #65
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In Your case I'm not suggesting a wheelie...While turning. That is something to learn in the dirt...And you haven't.

After you (well someone) learns it on the sketchy surface of dirt, the pavement (no matter how rough) being more consistent than dirt, that makes pavement easier.
More nonsense; a wheelie on pavement while turning!

A power wheelie coming out of a turn, sure, happens at times, but certainly not the "fast" way.

But while turning on the street?

Somehow I don't think Corndog uses, or advocates, wheelies while turning on the street.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:24 AM   #66
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More nonsense; a wheelie on pavement while turning!

A power wheelie coming out of a turn, sure, happens at times, but certainly not the "fast" way.

But while turning on the street?

Somehow I don't think Corndog uses, or advocates, wheelies while turning on the street.
And because you don't know, it is nonsense to you.

And You didn't see the front runners in MotoGP carrying wheelies though the S's with their front wheels in the air, never touching down as they went hard left-right-left-right,leans....And they must not know fast, even though they lead the field, and were the World Champions.

This wasn't just coming out of a turn...it was going into the turns, through the turns out of the turns, and not just one direction of turn...but both directions.

Now I'm not suggesting you do it.. And Your street is not everyone else's street.

And what You think Corndog thinks is just made up in your head, and then agreed upon in your head....
Imagination for your own delight.

I don't know what Corndog thinks about this..It has never come up.
I'm thinking that Corndog knows about this as he has some competition background,
and free spirited aggressive riding in back road settings...Riding with like minded friends.

If You don't know diddly about how it is safer to have your front wheel up at least a tiny distance off the pavement, while turning, so there is no risk of losing traction, there, where there is no traction to lose, And you are turning with the rear wheel...Then by all means, go slow enough so Your risky behavour, doesn't get overwhelmed...
And you join the boo hoo sessions of the, "hit a patch of sand/gravel/water/dirt, and crashed", Boo Hoo.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:51 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by louemc View Post
And because you don't know, it is nonsense to you.

And You didn't see the front runners in MotoGP carrying wheelies though the S's with their front wheels in the air, never touching down as they went hard left-right-left-right,leans....And they must not know fast, even though they lead the field, and were the World Champions.

This wasn't just coming out of a turn...it was going into the turns, through the turns out of the turns, and not just one direction of turn...but both directions.

Now I'm not suggesting you do it.. And Your street is not everyone else's street.

And what You think Corndog thinks is just made up in your head, and then agreed upon in your head....
Imagination for your own delight.

I don't know what Corndog thinks about this..It has never come up.
I'm thinking that Corndog knows about this as he has some competition background,
and free spirited aggressive riding in back road settings...Riding with like minded friends.

If You don't know diddly about how it is safer to have your front wheel up at least a tiny distance off the pavement, while turning, so there is no risk of losing traction, there, where there is no traction to lose, And you are turning with the rear wheel...Then by all means, go slow enough so Your risky behavour, doesn't get overwhelmed...
And you join the boo hoo sessions of the, "hit a patch of sand/gravel/water/dirt, and crashed", Boo Hoo.
Wheelie through turns. :|

Lou, I do not doubt you have more experience in your little finger than I have in my whole body, but wheelie through turns is really what you want to be putting out there?

Because there is no traction you have no traction to lose?!

Wheelie through turns! For safety.

This thread has been going in weird directions from the start, and now I think we have achieved nirvana.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:59 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by louemc View Post
And You didn't see the front runners in MotoGP carrying wheelies though the S's with their front wheels in the air, never touching down as they went hard left-right-left-right,leans....And they must not know fast, even though they lead the field, and were the World Champions.

This wasn't just coming out of a turn...it was going into the turns, through the turns out of the turns, and not just one direction of turn...but both directions.



If You don't know diddly about how it is safer to have your front wheel up at least a tiny distance off the pavement, while turning, so there is no risk of losing traction, there, where there is no traction to lose, And you are turning with the rear wheel...Then by all means, go slow enough so Your risky behavour, doesn't get overwhelmed...
And you join the boo hoo sessions of the, "hit a patch of sand/gravel/water/dirt, and crashed", Boo Hoo.


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Old 04-29-2013, 11:07 AM   #69
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:09 AM   #70
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Wheelie through turns. :|

Lou, I do not doubt you have more experience in your little finger than I have in my whole body, but wheelie through turns is really what you want to be putting out there?

Because there is no traction you have no traction to lose?!

Wheelie through turns! For safety.

This thread has been going in weird directions from the start, and now I think we have achieved nirvana.
I've been saying it from the start.. Learn this in the dirt first.. Then..You have it in the tool box (so you have judgement of using it) on pavement.

Back road pavement..rough surfaced, contaminated with Dirt/gravel/water.

Yes you can Not lose traction when your front wheel is already in the air, where it has no traction to lose.

yes I want to put it out there..If everyone knew it, I wouldn't feel the need, but obviously, it has been kept a secret...And the crashers that have no clue, just keep crashing (especially on Mulholland dr in So Cal).

It's glaringly obvious..street riders that never gave learning basic turning skills a moments thought...can't turn a simple corner.

Lets stamp out this outrage.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:25 AM   #71
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:26 AM   #72
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Flattracking dirt roads and paved goat trails in the rain? I don't know anything about those shenanigans.

Being on the street was not a stated qualifier for corndog's conjecture that having feet off the pegs is equivalent to not being in control.

BTW, I've never seen a single street supermoto rider who prefers to grind their boot off in turns rather than lift off the peg. Not everyone lives exclusively in your world of riding fast bikes slowly on smooth pavement.
And now you've just gone to the silly place. Kurt's post wasn't about Sumo racers on the track.... It was about the n00bs out there using their feet as outriggers. What one does on the racetrack (sumo or otherwise) isn't always what one is doing on the street. Oh- and "...lift[ing] off the peg" a tad to avoid toe grindage is a wee bit different than a sumo boot out and sliding through the turn...
Simple question- do you really think that n00bs using their feet as outriggers/paddles are doing it right? Or should they put their feet back up on the pegs?
As for me riding slowly... well, OK... it's enabled me to put in decades on the road without crashing, and I still manage to ride fast enough to have fun for myself, and not slow down such blazingly fast KFG's such as yourself too terribly... so I'm good with my "world of riding fast bikes slowly"...

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The thought of having my rubber soled boot touching down on the bumpy back roads around here riding my SM, (not a billiard smooth SM track), makes my ankles hurt.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that emulating many "go fast" track techniques that belong on the track make little sense in the real world of heavy metal and immovable objects?
Pretty much this.
Now, I do know a couple of pretty fast Sumo guys who have the plastic Sumo plates/sliders on their boots, so they can ride without ripping their boot off. But I can't imagine doing it without those....

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Originally Posted by louemc View Post
If You don't know diddly about how it is safer to have your front wheel up at least a tiny distance off the pavement, while turning, so there is no risk of losing traction, there, where there is no traction to lose, And you are turning with the rear wheel...Then by all means, go slow enough so Your risky behavour, doesn't get overwhelmed...
And you join the boo hoo sessions of the, "hit a patch of sand/gravel/water/dirt, and crashed", Boo Hoo.
I'm guessing you're suggesting this for poor-traction conditions... interestingly, a couple years back, I had a long conversation with Gary J about using the rear to steer in bad weather conditions. He straight up told me that he didn't recommend it AT ALL, that for MOST people- even those with a lot of riding experience- it wouldn't end well.
When you post stuff like what you did above, you are putting information out there that WILL put a less-experienced rider on the ground, do you get that? Out of every 100 riders that reads it, maybe 1 or 2 have the experience to safely do something like that. These such exalted beings are already aware of it. Less experienced riders, suddenly finding themselves in a poor-traction condition, could easily think to themselves "That guy Lou said I should wheelie!!" and then Mr. n00bity wacks the throttle, and yardsales his bike, and potentially gets seriously hurt, as well.
I don't imagine that's what you want... but when you post what it essentially bad information for the masses, then people can get hurt. Maybe try to keep that at the back of your mind when you're posting, hmm?
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:32 AM   #73
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I totally lol'd...
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:42 AM   #74
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So Lou, what happens if, under the increased load from being the only contact patch, the rear loses traction while the front is in the air? Just tossing it out there.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:45 AM   #75
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Lou, they don't get it, and they never will. Let it go. They still think paddling is the way to go. And want to argue about it.
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