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Old 01-31-2021, 07:22 AM   #1
DrSwade
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Getting COVID doesn’t create immunity but a manufactured vaccine does?

Can someone explain this please?
Because all along I have understood vaccines to be either actual viruses which weren’t living or a lab grown version of these diseases that weren’t viable which when introduced into the human body, would create an immune response, thereby preventing the host from getting the actual disease or at the least, a lesser serious case of said disease.

Is there another pathogen out there which we have been innoculated against in which getting and surviving the disease doesn’t create a form of immunity?
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:02 AM   #2
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Can someone explain this please?
Because all along I have understood vaccines to be either actual viruses which weren’t living or a lab grown version of these diseases that weren’t viable which when introduced into the human body, would create an immune response, thereby preventing the host from getting the actual disease or at the least, a lesser serious case of said disease.

Is there another pathogen out there which we have been innoculated against in which getting and surviving the disease doesn’t create a form of immunity?
Says who?

Having covid does create immunity.

What am I missing?
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:06 AM   #3
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From what I've read, there are a handful of cases where people have gotten Covid twice, but it's rare. The disease hasn't been around long enough to know how long immunity lasts, regardless of whether it's from getting the disease once or from a vaccine.

I've found the best articles on the subject at https://arstechnica.com/
Search for "Covid" and you'll get a bunch of well written and informative articles.
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:45 AM   #4
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Or,
Is it you can still catch the 'rona after the complete vaccination, with the current disclaimer "you can still catch the 'rona, but it won't kill you".

This bugs me, you still can get sick.
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:53 AM   #5
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Immunity from having caught and had COVID comes from your body having recognized an invading protein or other mass, manufactured enzymes to target it, and has the memory of both that invading protein and the enzymes that were effective at targeting it to use to keep you from "catching" the thing again. In many cases, your body is defeating COVID not by targeting the best protein for identifying and preventing the transmission of COVID, as the vaccine is targeted for, but is targeting some other protein assembly in the virus, which is harder to detect, takes longer to respond to, etc. It may be a slight variant of the virus which doesn't have whatever factor your body chose to identify and target in it, or present in the same form, etc.

The vaccine (Moderna/Pfizer specifically) is developed to target the specific protein the COVID virus uses to invade cells. It's always present in COVID and if it disappears, it's likely the virus has become less transmissible, so the vaccine being less effective isn't automatically bad. By using this specific protein, the body develops the blueprints to attack this protein and files them away once the infection is fought- providing a much more targeted and effective immunity than the general, un-directed response of your immune system.

The J&J vaccine is the 'dead virus' variant- unlike the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines.
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:53 AM   #6
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I think the term you are looking for is sterilizing immunity and not all vaccines provide this. It appears this may create an effective immunity.

Just because you develop an immune response doesn't guarantee you won't get it in the future.

You can get covid twice and it appears you can get covid after you get the vaccination, the rates seems quite similar.
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:22 AM   #7
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My wife's nephew caught covid twice, 8 months apart. He recovered fully each time, not surprising since he's 24 and very healthy.

Last edited by Jammer; 01-31-2021 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 01-31-2021, 01:16 PM   #8
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Having covid does create immunity.
it may not create lasting immunity in all cases. My understanding is that reinfection rates are low but there have been documented cases.

Even the vaccines may require periodic boosters. This is not uncommon.
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Old 01-31-2021, 01:19 PM   #9
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possibly of interest.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...764-7/fulltext
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:52 PM   #10
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Is there another pathogen out there which we have been innoculated against in which getting and surviving the disease doesn’t create a form of immunity?
I'm not a virologist, but the answer is yes.

You can get innoculated against shingles and it has a 90% efficacy. Or you can get shingles multiple times (more than twice is rare though).

Tetanus, you don't get immunity from being infected.

Haemophilus influenzae type B(HiB) also doesn't give you immunity if you've had it before.

Same goes for Pertussis/whooping cough, Pneumococcal Disease/strep, rotavirus, and I'm sure plenty of others.
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Old 02-01-2021, 09:00 AM   #11
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I think it will be unique if the vaccine gives you better immunity than having actually had the disease in the past.

It doesn't seem clear to me why we'd want to vaccinate people who have already had it unless it is to boost their immunity, but I'd think that they should be getting a vaccine at a later date as it seems wasteful and inefficient to vaccinate somebody who already had it in front of people who hadn't.
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Old 02-01-2021, 09:12 AM   #12
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I think it will be unique if the vaccine gives you better immunity than having actually had the disease in the past.

It doesn't seem clear to me why we'd want to vaccinate people who have already had it unless it is to boost their immunity, but I'd think that they should be getting a vaccine at a later date as it seems wasteful and inefficient to vaccinate somebody who already had it in front of people who hadn't.
Depends. Would you deny the vaccine to a healthcare worker who works with covid patients and had already contracted the virus?
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Old 02-01-2021, 11:22 AM   #13
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Depends. Would you deny the vaccine to a healthcare worker who works with covid patients and had already contracted the virus?
The question is, would it do them any good?

If they already had it and were getting exposed once in awhile, wouldn't that lead to a natural reinforcement of their immunity?
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Old 02-01-2021, 02:17 PM   #14
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The question is, would it do them any good?
Actually the question is would it do any harm.
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Old 02-01-2021, 05:44 PM   #15
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The question is, would it do them any good?

If they already had it and were getting exposed once in awhile, wouldn't that lead to a natural reinforcement of their immunity?
It wouldn't do any harm. Might give stronger immunity like a booster. Would you bet your life on continued high risk work without a vaccine when some form of protection is available?

I've had it. I have daily contact with the public in fairly high risk circumstances. I'm planning on getting the vaccine and don't feel I should have to wait behind lower risk people simply because I've already had it.
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