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Old 03-06-2018, 03:04 PM   #91
LittleBigGirl
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Fffffuuuuuuuudggggggeeeeeee. Just saw that video you posted on 12/16/17. Ouch. Yeah, that happened really fast. How fast was he going? Looked like they were both speeding. I have used cars to block me, but I also realize if that car got hit, I'd probably be affected, too.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:50 PM   #92
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Thanks to everyone sharing their thoughts. As a new rider I appreciate what was said here.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:03 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLaryDavis View Post
Thanks to everyone sharing their thoughts. As a new rider I appreciate what was said here.
Welcome to BARF.

This is one of my favorite threads for real-world crash prevention knowledge. The kinds of incidents described here really happen. But by taking the extra step of understanding why and learning how to spot the developing situation, you can prevent them.

Case in point: Yesterday, returning from my usual Taco Tuesday stop, I was riding here...



...in a light industrial area of San Luis Obispo. I was southbound behind a VW camper approaching the intersection in the pic. In that position, it was doubtful that I would be seen by the northbound pickup waiting to turn left. The driver might very well have begun his turn immediately after the VW passed, right into me. So I moved out to the camper's left tire track with a decent following distance. I was in full view, with ample visual separation from the vehicle I was following, so... nothing happened.

A tragic example of obstructed view is described in this BARF thread from 2017. Recent I was reviewing 2017 Bay Area motorcycle deaths in my compilation from NHTSA's traffic fatality database. In this crash, while CHP attributed it to right-of-way violation by the driver, it was also noted that the driver's vision was obscured by the uninvolved vehicle.
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How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.
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A is A.
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Last edited by DataDan; 09-27-2020 at 11:44 AM.. Reason: embedded map
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:03 PM   #94
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The A-pillar blind spot

A view obstruction not mentioned in this thread so far is the A-pillar blind spot. An "A pillar" is a car's front roof support. Since today's cars use them for rollover protection, they can be quite substantial--unlike the stylish, pencil-thin posts on a 1962 Chevrolet 409 "bubble top", for example. Next time you're in your car at a stop, move your head around to get an idea of what that structure can block: a pedestrian, bicyclist, motorcyclist, and maybe even a car.

This came to mind today watching the latest DanDanTheFireman video (thx to Budman for bringing him to my attention):


youtu.be/OL8HUu4XrB8

As the white car turns left--a point when the SUV driver should be checking for more traffic--notice that the right A-pillar is directly between the motorcycle and the driver.

Even without the A-pillar factor, situational awareness would trigger elevated attention here; a car attempting to enter your path of travel is always a concern. So, this is just an additional wrinkle that helps predict incursions.

A good countermeasure--but only when far enough out that it wouldn't interfere with a potential emergency maneuver--is the SMIDSY weave (see post #64 of this thread). If you are in the pillar's visual shadow, lateral movement could bring you out of it. Of course, you still cannot count on being seen. Expect an incursion and slow to a speed that will make it easier to avoid--as the rider in the video did.

When I first read about the A-pillar blind spot, I adopted a habit that is still with me: In my car, when checking for cross traffic, I move my head from side to side to see around the pillar.
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How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.
--Winston Smith

I see four lights!
--Jean Luc Picard

A is A.
--John Galt
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Old 09-27-2020, 12:17 PM   #95
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View to left-turner blocked by intervening vehicle

A crash configuration I mentioned in the OP of this thread and have described several times elsewhere on BARF involves what I call a "rolling blind spot". A motorcycle in the left lane is behind a vehicle, often tall and opaque, in the right lane--the rolling blind spot. The vehicle on the right slows to turn right at an intersection or driveway, and at the same time a vehicle waiting to turn left from the intersection pulls out in front of the motorcycle.

That scenario killed a rider and passenger yesterday in Thornton, Colorado, here:



The incident was exceptionally well reported by Shelly Bradbury of the Denver Post:
The crash in the 800 block of E. 104th Avenue happened at about 7:30 p.m., Officer Jesus Mendez said Sunday. The crash involved three vehicles. One driver was making a left out of the King Soopers parking lot at the same time that a second driver was turning right into the parking lot. As the two drivers prepared to make their turns, the motorcycle was approaching going straight on E. 104th Avenue, Mendez said.

The driver turning left could not see the motorcycle because it was blocked by the vehicle turning right, Mendez said. The driver turning left pulled out into the path of the motorcycle.

"It was just one of those terribly timed things," he said. "As that vehicle was turning in [to King Soopers], he was accidentally blocking the view of the motorcycle, because motorcycles are a lot smaller than cars.

Mendez declined to say whether the driver turning left, a man, would face charges, but said investigators do not suspect he was under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
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How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.
--Winston Smith

I see four lights!
--Jean Luc Picard

A is A.
--John Galt
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:09 PM   #96
W800
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Agreed about A-pillars. I usually driver older classic cars, but last year decided to buy a modern car. Between the A-pillar and the huge mirrors, I can't see anything when I am turning right or left. I literally have to learn forward and look around them to make sure I am not going to smush anyone.

What gets me is that there are people who don't even think about this. They just assume that there is nothing they will hit.

Also -

When I was growing up, driving was taught in high school, and it was also something folks learned from their dads. It was a skill that was passed down generation to generation. You had to be a good driver because you would get Darwined out if you sucked, since mistakes were more fatal than they are now.

We are from the South, and I literally learned to drive at age 15 on dirt roads. I was drifting before it was even "a thing." I was even taught how to do bootlegger turns for fun. Back up, turn wheel hard while locking brakes - and right after the (inevitable) 180, shift into drive or put into 1st or 2nd.

It's not like I have reasons to drift or do bootleg turns, but learning how to do them makes me understand how to handle a car that doesn't have traction, or is pointed the "wrong way."

There's a lot of really good NASCAR racers for this reason. It's part of the culture in the South.

Here, and now - people generally suck at driving. I fact, my current car is designed for those people. It actually won't let you get sideways due to stability control. You can partially disable this for what is called "track mode." But that's only partial. There's a way to completely disable everything (until you restart the car), but it's undocumented.

The fact that cars HAVE to have this level of idiot proofing is what makes me think that modern drivers suck.

ETA: since I am somewhat of a dick - I will tell folks how to completely disable stability and traction control in GM vehicles. You hold down the "traction control button" for 10 seconds. Works on my Cadillac at least. . .

LOL, sorry for going off topic. . .

/rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDan View Post
A view obstruction not mentioned in this thread so far is the A-pillar blind spot. An "A pillar" is a car's front roof support. Since today's cars use them for rollover protection, they can be quite substantial--unlike the stylish, pencil-thin posts on a 1962 Chevrolet 409 "bubble top", for example. Next time you're in your car at a stop, move your head around to get an idea of what that structure can block: a pedestrian, bicyclist, motorcyclist, and maybe even a car.

This came to mind today watching the latest DanDanTheFireman video (thx to Budman for bringing him to my attention):


youtu.be/OL8HUu4XrB8

As the white car turns left--a point when the SUV driver should be checking for more traffic--notice that the right A-pillar is directly between the motorcycle and the driver.

Even without the A-pillar factor, situational awareness would trigger elevated attention here; a car attempting to enter your path of travel is always a concern. So, this is just an additional wrinkle that helps predict incursions.

A good countermeasure--but only when far enough out that it wouldn't interfere with a potential emergency maneuver--is the SMIDSY weave (see post #64 of this thread). If you are in the pillar's visual shadow, lateral movement could bring you out of it. Of course, you still cannot count on being seen. Expect an incursion and slow to a speed that will make it easier to avoid--as the rider in the video did.

When I first read about the A-pillar blind spot, I adopted a habit that is still with me: In my car, when checking for cross traffic, I move my head from side to side to see around the pillar.

Last edited by W800; 09-27-2020 at 01:22 PM..
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