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Old 01-12-2021, 04:11 PM   #31
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Other clubs don't deal with that nonsense because they are dictatorships, not democracies. Its often quite refreshing knowing that the people that actually know how to run a race org are making the decisions.
ya i agree.

things would be a lot simpler if "this is what we race, if you want to race, fit our program"

vs

"oh what obscure bike do you have that you want to fit into a special niche so you can race against 4 others"



i'm saying this as triple cripple. If they get rid of 450's, man that sucks, ill figure out what bike i wanna race and go from there.


i also think they should do away with the age bracket races. 40-50-60-70 year old classes... come on...... boomers complaining millenial snowflakes always getting a participation trophy, then go ahead and make a class they'll be able to podium in. (with a few exceptions...

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Old 01-13-2021, 10:16 PM   #32
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Millennial snowflake that cant handle a 600, wants a special cripple class instead of competing in a class the bike the way it was intended
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Old 01-14-2021, 03:53 PM   #33
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Millennial snowflake that cant handle a 600, wants a special cripple class instead of competing in a class the bike the way it was intended
you're reading comprehension needs some work.
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Old 01-15-2021, 09:13 AM   #34
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Clearly you missed the tongue in cheek point. Each individual has their own priorities for classes and is quick offer up someone else's class....

AFM has been consistent in that they will find place to add a new class if it has a sponsor and evidence it will have adequate entries. As a result we have a ton of classes, everyone is happy that they have their favorite, and everyone hates that there are too many classes and are quick to point out the ones they think should be eliminated.....

The current model has worked well for the AFM over the years. Could fewer 'standard' classes with racing on 2 days be better in terms of increasing club participation and financial viability? I don't know, I personally would prefer that too.
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Old 01-21-2021, 03:25 PM   #35
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Thnx Wiles.

Those new prices definitely arent outrageous or anything. $330 and $240 is completely within range. WERA charges $320 for 3 races at their expensive tracks and $275 for cheaper tracks. CVMA charges $275 for 3 races.
Your analysis is really close Robert.

Before raising fees, we did an analysis of all of the West Coast clubs. The AFM was priced an average of $90/ weekend cheaper than the other clubs. That's $
almost $80K/ year (using 2019 attendance figures). We've been resistant to raising fees too much, hearing the members voices on keeping fees low. That decision has impacted us in 2020 with the low attendance figures in rounds 1 & 2 and now, we need to mark our rates to near market. Our tracks have raised fees, ambulances have raised fees, insurance has raised their cost, etc. We have not kept up with those cost increases in the hopes that increasing attendance will stem the outflow of cash. That being said, we moved pricing to be under that $90 deficit to other clubs pricing.

There was considerable thought and discussion on our fee moves this year. We have planned to invest any extra funds into improving a few areas in the club, aimed at more exposure/ promotion.

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Don't forget - if track rental prices are going or have gone up, trackday prices are going up too. Nearly everything gets more expensive year after year. That's life.
You really should run for a board seat! This is well said and the place we're at. Tracks have hit hard in their pricing the last few years. We have been resistant to mark our pricing to market. Time's up. We have to, now. Everything else is more costly too...

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DHs are a great way to drain your racing budget in half the time . That's not a solution to increased costs.

All these problems might be solved by smaller attendance. If the number of classes, races, and racers decreases , maybe the whole schedule will fit onto one day with 2 quick practice rounds. Then operating expenses decrease because AFM doesn't have to rent the track for 2 days to host a single round.
Good thoughts, again. We've gone over the structure of our weekends since I started as President and even before that. The consensus of several different boards has been that the AFM's "thing" works. We're different from other clubs, but our 2-day event is a community thing AND a racing thing. The rider's support crew contingent is a big deal and a fun deal. An AFM weekend has it's own flavor and draw beyond racing, IMO.

That said, we have discussed plans on how to do a 1 day event if it comes down to that. Likely, we'd partner with one of our TD partners and work with them.

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I really appreciate all the AFM BoD is doing to keep this show running.
Thanks Danno for the nice words about the BOD. The BOD is a hard, smart working group of people. In 2019, I think 9/11 raced. Several won races and championships and there were many podiums from our racing board members as well. So proud of all the girls and guys on our board!

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The fees increase itself is not a big deal. Leave it at that.

We know, In order to qualify for a Formula class you have to pay for practice. (which is BS) Now, theres talk on a fee increase on top of the newly added increase to run a Formula class. (which is BS)
The Formula class transition has been a longish transition. The plan started with making a rider's Formula class their premier race. This is the race for freinds/ family to come watch and one where all the riders of the cc class would be competing. We have this for FP, but not for riders who do not race FP. Formula classes were moved to a prime spot in the middle of the day and qualifying was added. Our next move is to add more laps for these races. As track time = cost, we did discuss increasing the fee and using the funds for better, higher quality trophies and possibly; payouts, but haven't gotten there yet. Trophies may happen, but not until we know what our turnout is for 2021.

Increased fees for Formula classes is NOT taking place for 2021.


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Here's how I'd bet the AFM could ditch Saturday entirely. Get rid of Clubman, F50, Legacy, and AFemme. At least chose 3 of those 4, probably the whichever is least attended. Add another practice Sunday morning and make the 2nd one count as Formula Qualifying. Move the lunch break up to before all the racing and move the podium until after all the racing. Saturday becomes a trackday run by someone else or AFM runs a double header. Offer Tech Sat evening of course. Don't charge extra for qualifying since its just a timed practice, but do charge more if they get longer races.
We've had this discussion several times too. One of the weirdnesses of the AFM are riders willing to leave the AFM racing scene if their "prime" race is eliminated. A prime race can be F40/ F50 or afemme. Each rider is worth an average of $340 or so/ weekend. Losing 5 of those in a year is almost $12K....it's these shitty facts and decisions that make the AFM matrix worse than anything Keanu had to deal with. Income for each day is pretty well even when factoring in crashes, etc. There are disproportionate advantages with fixed costs for a weekend/ day to having multiple days.

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This proposal fails to go through on annual basis

Any plan to remove some classes receives a really vocal opposition. One of the reasons is that the discussion usually happens relatively late, and people have already invested in bikes for specific classes. In addition to every class being somebody's favorite class, of course.

IMO, if we want to have a discussion on removing classes and have the proposal go through successfully, the classes to be removed/evaluated for removal for 2022 season should be listed as such in the 2021 rulebook or a bulletin.
Agree and well said. Hail to the #402!

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i also think they should do away with the age bracket races. 40-50-60-70 year old classes... come on...... boomers complaining millenial snowflakes always getting a participation trophy, then go ahead and make a class they'll be able to podium in. (with a few exceptions...
My comments above speak as to how AFMers are very (VERY) particular as to their preferred prime class. FWIW, since as long as I've been on the AFM board (15 years now?), the average age of our racers has been in the mid to late 30's. These are the people with jobs, careers, accumulated wealth, grown kids (some), etc, and have the resources and time to commit to racing and being a part of the AFM. We also have a respect for those who have blazed the racing trail and as such, give them a place to race with people their own age. Sometimes those kids can help you hit the ground...ask me how much GoPro videos I have of the 600 hotshots putting themselves and others on the ground!

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you're reading comprehension needs some work.
Gavin's not wrong though; AFM'ers love their classes and want to eliminate someone else's class. We try to not eliminate classes if we can make it all work...right now, we're stretched, IMO.
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Old 01-21-2021, 04:30 PM   #36
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We've had this discussion several times too. One of the weirdnesses of the AFM are riders willing to leave the AFM racing scene if their "prime" race is eliminated. A prime race can be F40/ F50 or afemme. Each rider is worth an average of $340 or so/ weekend. Losing 5 of those in a year is almost $12K....it's these shitty facts and decisions that make the AFM matrix worse than anything Keanu had to deal with. Income for each day is pretty well even when factoring in crashes, etc. There are disproportionate advantages with fixed costs for a weekend/ day to having multiple days.



Agree and well said. Hail to the #402!



My comments above speak as to how AFMers are very (VERY) particular as to their preferred prime class. FWIW, since as long as I've been on the AFM board (15 years now?), the average age of our racers has been in the mid to late 30's. These are the people with jobs, careers, accumulated wealth, grown kids (some), etc, and have the resources and time to commit to racing and being a part of the AFM. We also have a respect for those who have blazed the racing trail and as such, give them a place to race with people their own age. Sometimes those kids can help you hit the ground...ask me how much GoPro videos I have of the 600 hotshots putting themselves and others on the ground!



Gavin's not wrong though; AFM'ers love their classes and want to eliminate someone else's class. We try to not eliminate classes if we can make it all work...right now, we're stretched, IMO.
Berto, your argument seems predicated on the idea that those lost won't be replaced. If you believe that the club would be better with fewer classes, wouldn't you, therefore, believe that it would attract new members more than offsetting the loss? Saying the AFM is stuck with odd-ball classes because of revenue constraints is akin to not firing a high performing but toxic employee. Usually, if you do what's right, things shake out in the end.
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Old 01-22-2021, 05:43 PM   #37
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Martin, despite what I believe is best (personally) for class structure, we still need enough entries to keep us solvent. Given we're the only game in town for racing in the Bay Area, I believe all those who want to race their bikes in a specific class are racing with us (for the most part). IOW, I don't believe there are lots of racers that will join the AFM after we've gotten rid of various classes in the schedule. I don't believe that is the issue.

A 600 can race in 6 classes in the AFM. 9 if you count the chapter optional non-clubman classes. That's a lot of racing, IME. Not a bad thought, but we make our events successful by the current structure. Our event costs are astronomical IMO, but that's the cost of racing on the tracks we do with the safety and staff we budget for.

There are no other clubs on the West Coast that have a Life Flight helicopter sitting at the event, ready to fly one of our riders if needed. That alone is my peace of mind for the AFM. Saved one of my best friend's lives having it there....
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Old 01-22-2021, 06:38 PM   #38
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There are no other clubs on the West Coast that have a Life Flight helicopter sitting at the event, ready to fly one of our riders if needed. That alone is my peace of mind for the AFM. Saved one of my best friend's lives having it there....
I never knew that. Has to be expensive to have a Helo on stand-by, but what an amazing safety measure.
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Old 01-23-2021, 11:32 AM   #39
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Definitely no one can complain about not having enough races to enter with so many classes, and I agree with Berto that that is the probably best way to bring in more $. After the decision was made to allow large cc twins is F1, as well as keep Open twins alive, I got a Ducati, to enter these classes. That is 2 more races a year I will do (assuming I can figure out how to keep the Ducati running...). The real downside to soooo many classes is figuring out how to combine them with other classes so that the speed differences are so large. Lapping people after 3 laps is not fun for lapper or lapee.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:31 PM   #40
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Berto, does the AFM bring in enough $$ on Sat to cover those expenses? Given the high cost of practice and the fact I’ve talked to plenty of ppl that skip Sat, I’ve been assuming not.
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:58 PM   #41
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With not having a Friday track day on the AFM weekend for the May Thill round, I bet the Saturday practice will be packed this time around
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Old 01-25-2021, 03:30 AM   #42
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On another note, anyone bringing a new Aprilia 660 out for the twins class?....assuming they will be included.
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Old 01-26-2021, 06:05 AM   #43
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The Formula class transition has been a longish transition. The plan started with making a rider's Formula class their premier race. This is the race for freinds/ family to come watch and one where all the riders of the cc class would be competing. We have this for FP, but not for riders who do not race FP. Formula classes were moved to a prime spot in the middle of the day and qualifying was added. Our next move is to add more laps for these races. As track time = cost, we did discuss increasing the fee and using the funds for better, higher quality trophies and possibly; payouts, but haven't gotten there yet. Trophies may happen, but not until we know what our turnout is for 2021.

Increased fees for Formula classes is NOT taking place for 2021.
How about ditch trophies all together, except for (premier) FP and Formula classes. Then, no trophy for a class with less than 6-8 participants. I understand AFM is a "Bay Area" club so you WILL hurt some feelings with doing that.

How much could the club save?

Im waiting for the fees to be released for this new race club CRA. They are looking more and more appealing as of right now with the longer races.
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:58 PM   #44
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Im waiting for the fees to be released for this new race club CRA. They are looking more and more appealing as of right now with the longer races.
Id bet their price/lap will be about the same and total cost will be somewhere between a single race weekend like AFM or a double header like WERA or CVMA.

Their class structure and rulebook is out. An example weekend schedule is not out yet, but they do say there is two 10min rounds of practice both Sat and Sun and one 15min qualifying on Sat. With all that plus the normal races at 8 laps and the 6 long races, I bet they are racing Sat and Sun without repeating races - ie no double header.

So maybe someone will do two 8 lap races on Sat and one 20 lap race on Sun. That's a long weekend - equivalent race laps to 6 club races. That's a 50% increase in fuel and tire costs at a minimum. And I won't be surprised if that also brings a 50% increase in entry fees. Racing CRA isn't going to be cheap.
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:34 AM   #45
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So maybe someone will do two 8 lap races on Sat and one 20 lap race on Sun. That's a long weekend - equivalent race laps to 6 club races. That's a 50% increase in fuel and tire costs at a minimum. And I won't be surprised if that also brings a 50% increase in entry fees. Racing CRA isn't going to be cheap.
Those (2) 8 laps races on Sat and (1) 20 lap race on Sunday equal the difference of additional time/laps done between an AFM practice day (Sat/Sun) and CRA practice (Sat/Sun) plus qualifying.

Even with (3) races/practice with AFM it still equals more track time than those (3) longer races/practice with CRA by my scratchpad math.

50% increase for who?


CRA has half the amount of classes as well. It should help with pairing races/waves together. It sucks coming in hot on the 4th wave beginning of lap 2.

Only time will tell.
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