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Old 06-30-2020, 07:20 PM   #5581
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Don't know if this is the place for this discussion, Snaggy and Dr. Slo do you have any insight on the MMR vacine and a resistance to OVID-19? Apparantly American Samoa is attributing their lack of cases to an aggressive MMR vacination program.
Huh! Hadn't heard this before. Looks like there's something to this.

https://asm.org/Press-Releases/2020/...e-Worst-Sympto

I might just have to go out and get me a booster.
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:21 PM   #5582
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My si02 runs around 92-94 on a regular day.
That would scare the hell out of me.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:54 PM   #5583
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Remember when some people were questioning whether or not SIP was working? Seems pretty clear to me that it was working.
I disagree that SIP was working. It may have worked for a few weeks, but after that the majority of people were desperate to continue their lives as much as they could and they went out and they transacted, in a time before anyone had masks/ etc. Then, they came home and "sheltered" in their domicile with family. Everyone in the families got sick.

I don't think SIP was the correct answer. It was a fabricated idea, frankly, from a guy who could't SIP long enough to let his sperm count to build up for his midnight jaunts with his affair. The correct answer was PPE for individuals and THEN allowing people to move around in society while also working with businesses on how to open up and keep people safe. Watching the state and federal efforts were like watching Warren catch his baseball.



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Right. Seems many of the same people demanding everything opened up are also anti-mask. I have a hard time understanding how that makes sense. If we can somehow enforce sensibility in others, such as physical distancing, mask wearing, and limiting indoor interactions with others, more businesses can be opened up, and for longer. It shouldn't be all or nothing.

Though I think it's human nature with the need to see swift and direct results to activities for behaviors to really change. Covid infections and especially deaths don't seem to happen fast enough to convince many people. Humans, or especially Americans, also tend to have short memory spans.
We're missing a large (LARGE) grouping across the country who is contributing to the increases in COVID: protestors/ rioters/ Occupiers. The demo's of this group put them into urban homes with many family members. I think we'll find what we all knew was coming wasn't due solely to "bars and beaches". Instead, the weeks of yelling, looting, tearing things down, etc, has led to what we all knew it was going to lead to: more COVIDNESS.

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The product of a decade plus long shift in ideology to create mistrust in science and subject matter experts.e

The current US issue with corona is mainly a science vs anti science ideology at play.
Nah, you know why; same reason we didn't give a shit about H1N1 and made jokes about it: Americans can tolerate locking them up for only so long. Cue the prison reform groups NOW!

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That would scare the hell out of me.
Yeah, right? I never knew anything about it until I used my dad's oximeter when he was sick. I never get above 96 unless I take several deep breaths. Probably why I don't need drugs or alcohol...I'm walking hypoxic!
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:19 PM   #5584
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I'm sure you didn't mean silicone oxide, but still. I went in for overnight sleep apnea testing and the doc told me my O2 never went below 99. This little thing toggles around 98/99 and has even shown 100. I was trying to get it below 97 by holding my breath. After two minutes I give up. Maybe it's broken.

http://einstein.physics.drexel.edu/~...metry/main.pdf
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:27 PM   #5585
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We're missing a large (LARGE) grouping across the country who is contributing to the increases in COVID: protestors/ rioters/ Occupiers. The demo's of this group put them into urban homes with many family members. I think we'll find what we all knew was coming wasn't due solely to "bars and beaches". Instead, the weeks of yelling, looting, tearing things down, etc, has led to what we all knew it was going to lead to: more COVIDNESS.
I agree with that.
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:36 PM   #5586
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Don't know if this is the place for this discussion, Snaggy and Dr. Slo do you have any insight on the MMR vacine and a resistance to OVID-19? Apparantly American Samoa is attributing their lack of cases to an aggressive MMR vacination program.
Seems to be based on

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...207v1.full.pdf

and

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ed_Populations

The first notes that a Rubella protein bears a "29%" similarity to a Covid protein and speculates on folding etc, but doesn't actually have any pricey epitope modeling data. IOW, they didn't actually do crystallography or other techniques, bolstered by computer modelling, to demonstrate that the 2 proteins really look similar at all in 3D. Nor do they demonstrate experimentally that an antibody to this protein domain would neutralize either Rubella or Covid virus and reduce infection.


The second report observes that death rates are lower in countries with high rates of MMR administration. They speculate that death rises with age in Covid infection because old people never got MMR vaccine, just got sick with M,M,R. Honestly, this one is sorta offensive it's so bad. If you want, read the part about the sailors on the Teddy Roosevelt. LOLZ. The author information at the bottom of the page is hilarious. This is not the way scholars introduce themselves. Oh, and funding by Mercatus Institute

The thing about providing general stimulus to the immune system with a vaccine to something else works in a few special instances, but this is not a new idea, and never really panned out before.

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Old 06-30-2020, 10:49 PM   #5587
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Snaggy, can you speak as to the length of time the Vaccine may last as antibodies when developed?
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:38 PM   #5588
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Originally Posted by ThumperX View Post
Don't know if this is the place for this discussion, Snaggy and Dr. Slo do you have any insight on the MMR vacine and a resistance to OVID-19? Apparantly American Samoa is attributing their lack of cases to an aggressive MMR vacination program.
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Originally Posted by bojangle View Post
Huh! Hadn't heard this before. Looks like there's something too this.

https://asm.org/Press-Releases/2020/...e-Worst-Sympto

I might just have to go out and get me a booster.
There is some basis for this and was discussed in relation to polio in TWiV 604 Oral poliovaccine to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection. Whether this is a phenomenon for the young only or is useful in the elderly, only carefully controlled studies will provide the answer. The data in the MedRxiv manuscript Snaggy put up don't really show anything other than a correlation between vaccination status, age and death; correlation does not equal causation. My bet on the mechanism of action is nothing related to the structural protein of measles; 29% amino acid identity is almost random in terms of proteins. The most likely mechanism is through the innate arm of the immune system that will be triggered in response to a live attenuated vaccine. This will be short acting, a few weeks. As with everything SARS 2.0 only properly control studies will provide the answer. This will take time.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:08 PM   #5589
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I disagree that SIP was working.
SIP did and SIP was working. What we're seeing is very clear evidence of how SRAS 2.0 spreads once people try to go back to normal. The protests are only going to contribute a small proportion of the cases. My bet is that this current increase in cases goes back to memorial day weekend. What all of the health officials are not discussing or the governors are ignoring (hard to know) is transmission dynamics. SARS 2.0 spreads in fits and starts. Not many people spread the virus but when they do it infects a sizeable number of people, probably around 5-10. This means that there are seeding events in the population and the transmission grumbles on for some time. Unfortunately, all of the states where there have been big jumps were too fast in their opening protocols. What should have happened is open and wait for 4-6 weeks before moving onto the next phase to be sure that there was not an increase in cases associated with the reopening.

There is another factor and I can't recall if this was mentioned in the thread already. Air conditioning. Most of the places where we're seeing big jumps in cases might well be attributed to folks wanting to escape the heat. Enclosed environments with AC is going to be the perfect environment for SARS 2.0 to spread. Couple this with the seeding events then the cases start to increase more rapidly.

At the beginning of the epidemic it was clear what was going to happen; there would be peaks and troughs of cases. Under those circumstances there will be rolling lockdowns as predicted at the beginning of the epidemic. The US continues to handle the epidemic in a half arsed manner largely due to the continued incoherent federal response, which is the major contributor to continuing economic damage.

The idea of SIP was two fold, flatten the curve and buy time to get testing and tracing sorted. The curve was flattened but valuable time has been wasted on the most critical aspect, test, trace, isolate, TETRIS. If this had been implemented when the cases were low new outbreaks could be controlled and the economy opened up faster. Sadly, we are pretty much where we were in March. Now, everything is being bet on face coverings. This is not going to solve the epidemic in the US because community transmission is too frequent. Will it help? Perhaps, but it's going to take a lot longer than going back to lockdowns in the affected areas.

To me, the mindset in the US is akin to the five stages of grief; denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Most folk in the US are just moving back and forth between denial (it's only a flu, or, it's a hoax), anger (protests against control measures) and bargaining (we can open up early; face coverings are the solution). Me, I'm set at a metaphorical depression because it's depressing to see everyone's hard work wasted by this new surge in cases. Regardless of what you hear this was not inevitable because numerous countries around the world have been very successful in keeping SARS 2.0 under control. The catastrophe in the US is solely down to poor infectious disease and crisis management. To suggest anything else is just stage one of grief.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:21 PM   #5590
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There is another factor and I can't recall if this was mentioned in the thread already. Air conditioning. Most of the places where we're seeing big jumps in cases might well be attributed to folks wanting to escape the heat. Enclosed environments with AC is going to be the perfect environment for SARS 2.0 to spread. Couple this with the seeding events then the cases start to increase more rapidly.
Well, it looks like Berto was onto something with people going inside in the heat.

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Old 07-01-2020, 08:07 PM   #5591
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To me, the mindset in the US is akin to the five stages of grief; denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Most folk in the US are just moving back and forth between denial (it's only a flu, or, it's a hoax), anger (protests against control measures) and bargaining (we can open up early; face coverings are the solution). Me, I'm set at a metaphorical depression because it's depressing to see everyone's hard work wasted by this new surge in cases. Regardless of what you hear this was not inevitable because numerous countries around the world have been very successful in keeping SARS 2.0 under control. The catastrophe in the US is solely down to poor infectious disease and crisis management. To suggest anything else is just stage one of grief.
Reminds me of this quote
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Old 07-01-2020, 08:33 PM   #5592
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Old 07-02-2020, 06:57 AM   #5593
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I extended the graph length to up to 4 months with a drop-down.
Does anybody know which is the best source for hospitalizations? I'm thinking of adding that to the table and graph since it is probably the best indicator.
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:02 AM   #5594
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Goldman Sachs say masks can save 5% of GDP. The administration says a national mask mandate is not necessary. When the virus hit the US it found a friend and knew it would be very comfortable there.
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:30 AM   #5595
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Goldman Sachs say masks can save 5% of GDP. The administration says a national mask mandate is not necessary. When the virus hit the US it found a friend and knew it would be very comfortable there.

I think the most difficult thing for me during this pandemic is observing the conscious diversion toWards ignorance. I am very sad over this.
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