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Old 03-10-2019, 11:12 AM   #1
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Holy Shit! Second Boeing 737 Max 8 crashes in a year!

Jetliner crashes in Ethiopia, killing 157 from 35 countries
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ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia (AP) ó A jetliner carrying 157 people crashed shortly after takeoff from the Ethiopian capital Sunday, killing everyone aboard and carving a crater into the ground, authorities said. At least 35 nationalities were among the dead.

It was not clear what caused the Ethiopian Airlines plane to go down in clear weather. The accident was strikingly similar to last year's crash of a Lion Air jet that plunged into the Java Sea, killing 189 people. Both crashes involved the Boeing 737 Max 8, and both happened minutes after the jets became airborne.
Something must be seriously wrong with those jets or something in the maintenance procedures (At one point in my career I specialized in maintenance procedures for Air Force systems) that is inadequate for keeping that system functioning properly.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:07 PM   #2
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The Ethiopian airline is a respected carrier with a safety record on par with the other major players. This is not some marginal backwoods fleet. This will most likely come down to the airplane. Not good for Boeing.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:42 PM   #3
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Where do do Lion Air and Ethiopian have their fleet maintained? Could be a design flaw, or more likely low budget maintenance:

"An automatic anti-stall system appears to have engaged on a Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX that crashed last month amid erroneous readings from a sensor that may have triggered it, according to a preliminary report from Indonesian investigators released Wednesday. Maintenance workers had failed to repair the sensor despite pilotsí reports from a flight the previous day that suggest the anti-stall system engaged incorrectly on that flight as well."
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:58 PM   #4
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With a second crash the efforts to find a common fault will proceed with more urgency no doubt.

Poor maintenance can screw up anything no matter how good it is. Not being a pilot and not having slept in the Holiday Inn, it seems like there would be some procedure to deal with the faults as theorized at this point (at least in the first crash).

With the long service of the plane and the safety record of airlines in general, this isn't an *(&#^$#(^! moment. IMO
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:04 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by gixxerjeff View Post
The Ethiopian airline is a respected carrier with a safety record on par with the other major players. This is not some marginal backwoods fleet. This will most likely come down to the airplane. Not good for Boeing.
What if the maintenance protocols for some important system are wrong?

I've seen faulty maintenance plans get through 40 person Technical Interchange Meetings that were supposed to catch errors. Maintenance procedures aren't written by the best and brightest in the companies, they aren't the sexy job for engineers that design engineering is. Often they are being written by people who aren't even engineers. Rarely are the design engineers consulted when the maintenance procedures being written.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:33 PM   #6
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I haven't followed up on the Lion Air crash, but I'm under the impression the Lion crash had to do with the faulty data and the new Max 8 Safety protocols in which Boeing did not inform pilots of the new system. Not maintenance issues.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Climber View Post
Jetliner crashes in Ethiopia, killing 157 from 35 countries

Something must be seriously wrong with those jets or something in the maintenance procedures (At one point in my career I specialized in maintenance procedures for Air Force systems) that is inadequate for keeping that system functioning properly.
Third world pilots and third world maintenance are the common denominators. Stay away from them.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:29 PM   #8
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To compensate for the larger engines on the 737 Max, Boeing added a computerized system, called M.C.A.S., to prevent the plane's nose from getting too high and causing a stall. Faulty sensor data may have instead caused the system to keep pushing the nose down, possibly leading to the crash of Lion Air Flight 610.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/w...sh-pilots.html

Pilots of the new 737 Max should be trained/understand this new MCAS system and how to override this condition but maybe not.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:25 PM   #9
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That didn't take long

That didn't take long:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/10/afric...ntl/index.html

There is probably more at work than just a concern for safety (speculation) but it could start a ripple. They have 97 737MAX planes in their fleets.

Q: If you were scheduled to take a flight on a 737MAX, would you reschedule to take a different aircraft? I'm not advocating that, just asking the question.

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Old 03-10-2019, 09:14 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Schnellbandit View Post
That didn't take long:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/10/afric...ntl/index.html

There is probably more at work than just a concern for safety (speculation) but it could start a ripple. They have 97 737MAX planes in their fleets.

Q: If you were scheduled to take a flight on a 737MAX, would you reschedule to take a different aircraft? I'm not advocating that, just asking the question.
At this rate, we might not have to make that decision.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnellbandit View Post
...
Q: If you were scheduled to take a flight on a 737MAX, would you reschedule to take a different aircraft? I'm not advocating that, just asking the question.
In or near Ethiopia? Yes.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:14 AM   #12
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Hopefully Boeing figures this out quickly
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:44 AM   #13
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for the victims.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:31 AM   #14
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China and Indonesia are grounding all 737 Max 8. Interesting that supposedly safety neglectful third world nations are stepping up and the US is doing nothing.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:47 AM   #15
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In defense of the US, these countries (India/Indonesia/China) are filled to the gills with "paint by numbers" pilots. If a situation requires quick thinking and performance of uncommon procedure, these are not the kind of pilots you want to be onboard with.
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