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Old 05-19-2019, 10:10 PM   #136
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A. Not true at all, as evident by gnahc79's post.
B. You are just thinking of fast food applications. If that is your frame of reference, then you are missing a giant world of food, out there. Waitstaff is one of the most difficult things to duplicate. I suggest you go watch "When Harry Met Sally", or "Five Easy Pieces", for the simplest examples of restaurant dynamics.

When I sit down and want a Bullet Bourbon on rocks with an orange slice, and my dinning partner wants a Sonoma Chardonnay with a side glass of ice, and some crackers and butter, what the f' is your robot going to do? Throw it's plastic menu at the window and pout? It won't have a clue and people will walk out.
Like I said, they already have them at Applebee's and similar chains. Yes, a certain amount of personalized service will be lost in this trend. Do you think Business cares?
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:29 PM   #137
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Like I said, they already have them at Applebee's and similar chains. Yes, a certain amount of personalized service will be lost in this trend. Do you think Business cares?
It's a race to the bottom.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:30 PM   #138
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https://wjla.com/news/local/uber-and...eagan-national

Fraud is the solution they've come up with at Reagan
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:34 PM   #139
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https://wjla.com/news/local/uber-and...eagan-national

Fraud is the solution they've come up with at Reagan
That shit pisses me off because they're boning the customers, rather than the service. Don't like the wages? Get a better job. Of course giving someone a $4 ride during rush hour is silly. THEN FIND SOMETHING BETTER. Don't try to game the system.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:37 PM   #140
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https://wjla.com/news/local/uber-and...eagan-national

Fraud is the solution they've come up with at Reagan
They're gaming the system, just like the Uber/Lyft Execs are doing.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:39 PM   #141
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What's funny is that the legal decision that their drivers are contractors is gonna F them in the A...if they're contractors, then determining how much they charge is price fixing.

So either they're employees and you choose pricing, or they're contractors and you can't fix the price.

I can't wait to see how it plays out.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:56 PM   #142
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It's a race to the bottom.
Yes and no. As the coming Robot Economy rises, the decimation or worse of Lower and Middle Class jobs might mean some major redrafting of the global society will have to take place. I expect by the time it all works out, it will be beyond my lifetime, and there will be some really ugly days of bloodshed before it happens, but I am super interested in how that works out over the next century or so.
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:09 PM   #143
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Another article on SFGate today.
Main things.. you're being driven by a $10/hourer.

The increased congestion even slowing down buses. It's a vicious cycle.
"Every transit agency in the Bay Area saw a significant drop in ridership in the first half of 2018 compared with 2017"
(How the hell do you figure? I know how )

Towards the end, something pretty sketch, as in skurry: "ride hailing results in about 83 percent more vehicle miles traveled than if ride hailing had not existed"

And finally.. read the last sentence. Enjoy .. non-public Uber transit.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:58 PM   #144
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6 months ago in Vegas.


youtu.be/5BEugKgdrxU

Notice the lines painted on the floor, very cheap and reliable tracking tech in China.


youtu.be/ZCBbejvb7jA

Early tech in San Francisco...



youtu.be/1Kfd3VHiVhY
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:34 PM   #145
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All of the tech in those videos are proof of concept. Getting it to scale and be profitable to operate is a big challenge. Doable, but not coming soon IMO. The burger video has the most promise. It seems like there's still several employees required to keep the machine running though, about the same number of employees at five Guys. Reducing the number of people required to keep the burger machine running is going to be very challenging. The robot waiter video is a complete fail though lol. We've already covered self driving.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:19 AM   #146
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All of the tech in those videos are proof of concept. Getting it to scale and be profitable to operate is a big challenge. Doable, but not coming soon IMO. The burger video has the most promise. It seems like there's still several employees required to keep the machine running though, about the same number of employees at five Guys. Reducing the number of people required to keep the burger machine running is going to be very challenging. The robot waiter video is a complete fail though lol. We've already covered self driving.
I disagree, I think you are grossly underestimating the power of the Commu-capitalist manufacturing force of the Chinese government. As stated in the video, China is obsessed with Robotics and the government is driving R&D to reach standards ahead of Japan and the U.S.. Cleary they are not there yet, their tech seemed the most primitive, but as you said. Proof of concept. The stated cost of those goofbots was equivalent to 2 months salary for a waiter. That is probably subsidized by the Government, but still far below the price point I anticipated as the tip to black. If you can get a bot for 3-5 years of service with minimal maintenance, that should easily be justify a cost of 1 year salary for a human without having to put in the TCO numbers for sick days, health care, etc.
They also have not figured out yet that telling the robot what you want to order is a fail, and touchscreen order menus are the way to go. There are other robot restaurants in China that use different less anthropomorphized robots and do use the touch screen menu I previously professed as the future. I am telling you, the robot Economy for China will be what Ford and the Auto Industry was for American Manufacturing.

I saw Creator as the least developed piece. It is very much still clearly a Beta. They are using unnecessary staff to work there in order to avoid protests from people about labor (which would not be allowed in China), they are not trying to load the food into the bot on an industrial scale, because they are selling it with an emphasis on freshness. Again, this is a value statement effort, not an efficiency effort. The machine is very limited in what it can produce, just burgers. In & Out has shown that a very limited Fast Food menu can succeed, but to replace the kitchen, it needs to make fries too. Those are super easy to automate, much easier than burgers, but they just have not bothered yet. All the same, this is just not a replacement for a line cook, the tech isn’t there yet. A super important piece to not there though is even with all that inflated cost, they are selling burgers for $6. A burger at Carl's Jr. in San Francisco costs $8 right now.

Wait staff are super easy to replace, they only have 2 jobs. Take orders and deliver dishes. Take orders is not even a question. That is super easily replaced by existing technology we have today. Touch screen input goes directly to the kitchen. By its very nature, it is faster than human wait staff. Delivery is the more complicated piece, as the physical logistics require more advanced physical tech and not just software, but as has been shown, it pretty much is already there, just ramping up to standardized production right now.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:31 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
I disagree, I think you are grossly underestimating the power of the Commu-capitalist manufacturing force of the Chinese government. As stated in the video, China is obsessed with Robotics and the government is driving R&D to reach standards ahead of Japan and the U.S.. Cleary they are not there yet, their tech seemed the most primitive, but as you said. Proof of concept. The stated cost of those goofbots was equivalent to 2 months salary for a waiter. That is probably subsidized by the Government, but still far below the price point I anticipated as the tip to black. If you can get a bot for 3-5 years of service with minimal maintenance, that should easily be justify a cost of 1 year salary for a human without having to put in the TCO numbers for sick days, health care, etc.
They also have not figured out yet that telling the robot what you want to order is a fail, and touchscreen order menus are the way to go. There are other robot restaurants in China that use different less anthropomorphized robots and do use the touch screen menu I previously professed as the future. I am telling you, the robot Economy for China will be what Ford and the Auto Industry was for American Manufacturing.

I saw Creator as the least developed piece. It is very much still clearly a Beta. They are using unnecessary staff to work there in order to avoid protests from people about labor (which would not be allowed in China), they are not trying to load the food into the bot on an industrial scale, because they are selling it with an emphasis on freshness. Again, this is a value statement effort, not an efficiency effort. The machine is very limited in what it can produce, just burgers. In & Out has shown that a very limited Fast Food menu can succeed, but to replace the kitchen, it needs to make fries too. Those are super easy to automate, much easier than burgers, but they just have not bothered yet. All the same, this is just not a replacement for a line cook, the tech isn’t there yet. A super important piece to not there though is even with all that inflated cost, they are selling burgers for $6. A burger at Carl's Jr. in San Francisco costs $8 right now.

Wait staff are super easy to replace, they only have 2 jobs. Take orders and deliver dishes. Take orders is not even a question. That is super easily replaced by existing technology we have today. Touch screen input goes directly to the kitchen. By its very nature, it is faster than human wait staff. Delivery is the more complicated piece, as the physical logistics require more advanced physical tech and not just software, but as has been shown, it pretty much is already there, just ramping up to standardized production right now.
oh come on! let's just agree to disagree on when/how much physical robots take over the jobs. Closing the loop where digital input/sensors drive an automated physical response and rinse&repeat (zero human intervention) is a huge challenge. Having it be efficient with a very low error rate is another huge challenge. This is in my space of what I do at work

For China, the most effective 'puter related things these days are the social credit system and AI/ML Google-glass type threat detection.. This stuff is in full production and scary effective, largely because there's no physical robot response required based on the sensor inputs. The only action here is human driven.
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According to Australia’s ABC News, the government has produced a “Deadbeat Map” via an app on WeChat, which shows a radar-style graphic identifying every laolai in the vicinity of the user.

“Tapping on a person marked on the map reveals their personal information, including their full name, court-case number and the reason they have been labeled untrustworthy. Identity-card numbers and home addresses are also partially shown,” ABC reported.

There are reports that those whose social credit score falls too low are preemptively arrested and sent to re-education camps. Not because they have actually committed a crime, but because they are likely to.
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Police used the sunglasses to check travelers and car registration plates against the government’s blacklist before Parliament’s annual meeting this past weekend. The Chinese government has a list of people who are not allowed to enter the meeting and might face additional enforcement action. The blacklist includes criminals, journalists, political dissidents, and human rights activists, among others
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:20 PM   #148
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That is some scary shit.
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #149
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The best part about robot waiters or ordering kiosks in restaurants is the technology provider will probably make a deal to sell the data on your food and beverage orders to your health insurance company, credit providers, retailers and or anyone else with an interest in your consumption. Awesome!
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:32 AM   #150
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oh come on! let's just agree to disagree on when/how much physical robots take over the jobs. Closing the loop where digital input/sensors drive an automated physical response and rinse&repeat (zero human intervention) is a huge challenge. Having it be efficient with a very low error rate is another huge challenge. This is in my space of what I do at work

For China, the most effective 'puter related things these days are the social credit system and AI/ML Google-glass type threat detection.. This stuff is in full production and scary effective, largely because there's no physical robot response required based on the sensor inputs. The only action here is human driven.
But dude. ZERO human intervention is needed for delivering food from kitchen to table. That shit is super basic. I just don't see what the huge obstacles are there that you are fixated on. Amazon is already using robots for this in a much more complicated model than would be required for a restaurant.

Now the Chinese surveillance state shit. That is the Orwellian nightmare we have all been waiting for. Good thing we shot our load beating the Soviets and they are going to take over world leadership now.

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The best part about robot waiters or ordering kiosks in restaurants is the technology provider will probably make a deal to sell the data on your food and beverage orders to your health insurance company, credit providers, retailers and or anyone else with an interest in your consumption. Awesome!

*le sigh* You're probably right.
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