BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Moto > Crash Analysis


Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-16-2012, 04:56 PM   #1
ironrider
Newbie
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: CBR600F4
Name:
Down on Del Puerto Canyon- last friday

Hello all,
First post so I apologize if this turns out weird. I would like to thank you all for sharing your tips and stories on this site. I have learned a lot over the last few months lurking through the forums. Thanks!

CRASH:
Riding my yellow 2000 CBR600F4 which I bought about 2 months ago. Friday, May 11 2012, I head out riding for the day from San Jose, up to Mt Hamilton, then down towards Patterson. Points I am specifically focusing on today are “look where you want to go/Target fixation” and less use of rear brake. Target fixation is by far my worst habit which I only noticed due to tips on BARF.

All is going well. I am riding slow, just practicing. About 4 miles West of Patterson on Del Puerto Canyon Road the curves smooth out and no more gravel mid turns (but add cattle!). I up the pace a bit and start just enjoying the ride. I am entering a left turn at about 45mph. I notice that road has slope to outside of turn. Uh oh. I lightly apply both front and rear brake and slow plenty. I see the gravel off the road where I do not want to end up. My eyes never leave it. Crap! I swear I could not look away. I am trying to turn but bike will not lean. Seriously feels like I am locked in position. I pull off absolutely no countersteer. Halfway through the turn I am off the pavement and on to gravel at about 30mph. I go about 30 feet and hit a nice big dip in the gravel. Front wheel slides out to the right and me and bike meet ground. Smack, roll, slide, etc. I was amazed at the violence of this fall at only 30mph. Sweet Jesus!
Alive? Check.
Arms move? Check.
Can I get up? Check.
Wow! I am whole! Hell yeah. Remove jacket and see I have serious rash on hip and left forearm. Left forearm is bleeding but not terrible.
Bike went about 20ft further than me. Pick up bike. Not too bad. Broken left peg, and front fairing shifted enough to block full steering motion. Remove front fairing and bend back mouting bracket. Bike is fully functional minus ability to shift with foot due to the broken left peg.

HOME:
I decide to stash my parts in a bush and ride back home over Mt Hamilton. The ride home goes surprisingly well, just kept her in 2nd gear. I get home, shower, scrub and dis-infect wounds and bandage. Jump in the car and head straight back to Patterson on Freeways (driving with right arm only). I got to the crash site about 8pm, just before sunset. NO FAIRING! What!? I saw maybe 10 vehicles in an hour on Del Puerto Canyon. I was gone from 3pm to 8pm. In 5 hrs someone came across my parts, hidden from view, and picked them up. What are the odds of that? Who would even bother? Boggles my mind.

Summary:
Rough lesson on target fixation, but could have been much worse.
Glad I was wearing gear, but wish I had worn better. No more textile jackets, leather is king. Note: I had the winter liner removed. Im sure that made it worse.
Currently missing full front assembly (headlight, mirrors, signals, fairing). If anyone comes across this, or has one they can sell, let me know.


Any tips or drills on how to get rid of this bad Target Fixation habit would be very much appreciated! Please be gentle…

BTW, my total riding experience is just under 2000 miles over the last 10 years. Both cruiser and sport bike.

Thanks,
Waiting to get back on the horse

photo 1: The beautiful turn. No Reason to Fail.
photo 2: Pile of gravel where bike stopped.
photo 3: The worst of it. Forearm only. Elbow is good.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-05-11 14.08.17.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	109.0 KB
ID:	394068   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-05-11 14.08.22.jpg
Views:	164
Size:	118.8 KB
ID:	394069   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-05-11 16.49.29.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	52.1 KB
ID:	394070  
ironrider is offline  
Old 05-16-2012, 05:54 PM   #2
DefyInertia
Original Saratogian
 
DefyInertia's Avatar
 
BARF SFMTA Volunteer

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Contra Costa
Motorcycles: BW80
Name: Nate
Look farther ahead and when it comes time to turn, TURN!

+1 how did htat happen to your arm?
DefyInertia is offline  
Old 05-16-2012, 06:24 PM   #3
ironrider
Newbie
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: CBR600F4
Name:
On the road rash and 2 deep gashes: That roadside is not so much loose gravel as it is hard impacted dirt studded with jagged gravel. Not the soft landing I expected. I went down elbow first. padding worked amazing. All damage is on forearm before elbow pad. I had the liner out so was basically a thin cloth wall on forearm. This allowed gravel to literally tear flesh without penatrating. When I looked at the jacket later I was amazed that there was not so much as a single frayed thread to tell the tale. It is perfect. At least no grit in wound.

I am still trying to find the turn on google maps. Surprisingly hard considering how intimate I got with it. My guess is I will be even more embarrassed from an aerial view. 30mph!

TURN! Noted. Short enough to be a mantra. Thanks.
ironrider is offline  
Old 05-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #4
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
 
DataDan's Avatar
 
BARF Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2010 & 2014
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo
Motorcycles: Yamaha FJR1300
Name: Dan
Good analysis and post, ironrider. Glad you're OK. Road rash usually looks worse than it actually is. For info the turn is here (Google maps link).

The problem with that turn is that it tightens up at the end (traveling eastbound). You can see it both in the aerial view and going through it in street view. As you approach on the straight, the turn seems flat and gentle as it disappears around the outcropping on the left. Then when you get to the double-trunk tree on the left, your view finally opens up, and you see that it's tighter than it first appears.

You understand the role of visual skill; the problem is developing it. Do that by training yourself to use the same pattern of eye movement in every turn. As you approach the turn, spot a (tentative) turn-in point. Then as you approach your planned turn-in, look for the tight-spot in the turn. That's what you want to aim for as you steer. Then, move your eyes to the exit point and begin to roll on the gas. Your eyes are always (at least) a step ahead of the motorcycle, which produces sort of a slo-mo effect so events occur predictably.

You also need to develop the instinct to countersteer the motorcycle when you have to change direction. From your description, it seems like it was something you had to think about. You don't want to have to rely on a conscious thought process to make a steering input. It's something that just has to happen. Paradoxically, you make countersteering a subconscious process by consciously countersteering every time you change direction faster than walking speed. To go left, press left. To go right, press right. Turning at an intersection? Countersteer. Changing lanes? Countesteer. Curving through a gentle freeway bend? Countersteer. After a few weeks, you won't have to think about it anymore.
__________________
How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.
--Winston Smith

I see four lights!
--Jean Luc Picard

A is A.
--John Galt
DataDan is offline  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:34 PM   #5
ironrider
Newbie
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: CBR600F4
Name:
HA! Amazing, DataDan. Thats the one. Seems you know that road pretty well. Sorry I scratched it
Thanks for the good description of the turn. Went over it in my head a bit and I have a clear thought of going into alert mode just before that tree on the left. Yes. Countersteering is still very much a conscious effort for me. I think my instinct was body weight shift only, fighting a huge desire to keep the bike upright. Felt locked into place.
Shouldnt be more than 2 weeks before Im on the road again, even if I have to bolt on a cruiser headlight. I get what your saying on the visual skills, will be interesting to practice with. So far I am simply outside to inside on the turns (I think) "trying" to hit an apex. Cheers
ironrider is offline  
Old 05-16-2012, 10:45 PM   #6
Gary856
Are we having fun yet?
 
Gary856's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Motorcycles: WR250F, 690SM, R1200GS, MTS1200, 950SM, XB12X
Name: Gary
My belief of target fixation is it's the result of being overwhelmed, but not the cause. If you avoid being overwhelmed, you would not target fixate. What overwhelmed you? Excessive speed.

Think of it this way. If you took that turn at 5 mph, would you target fixate on the gravel shoulder? No way, because you'd have plenty of processing power to deal with it. How about 10? 15? 20? 30? 40? 50? 60? As the speed goes up, reaction time goes down, and at some point you run out of processing power, get overwhelmed, and target fixate.

What I lived by when I was new was slow-in, fast-out, when taking corners. Slow to the point of being totally comfortable with the turn, and you wouldn't get target fixation. You build up muscle memory that way and increase your speed gradually.

One more thing. When overwhelmed, you naturally stiffen up too, and being stiff also prevents you from turning.
Gary856 is offline  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:13 AM   #7
tzrider
Write Only User
 
tzrider's Avatar
 
BARF Admin
Contributor +

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Motorcycles: Kaw N1K
Name: Andy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary856 View Post
My belief of target fixation is it's the result of being overwhelmed, but not the cause. If you avoid being overwhelmed, you would not target fixate. What overwhelmed you? Excessive speed.
There is some truth here, though other things can make a rider target fixate. From whatever cause, let's assume something has captured the rider's attention. What can he do to get his attention unstuck?
__________________
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

California Superbike School tzrider's blog
tzrider is offline  
Old 05-20-2012, 08:07 PM   #8
NorCal Factory
Veteran
 
Contributor ++++ 2%

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Gatos
Motorcycles: Aprilia Tuano, Aprilia RSV4 RF, Aprilia Tuano, Husky TE 300 I
Name: Tom
A couple of common likely contributing factors:

1.) Riding faster than your vanishing point will allow for comfortable braking.
2.) Arm locking with hard braking.

I will bet as you were braking your arms were locked preventing you from turning as well. While looking where you are going practice moving your elbows up and down like flapping them to ensure they are loose or you will not be able to brake and turn as your weight goes on your wrist.

A good practice technique is to brake and focus on how little pressure you can put on the handlebars. The key to that is squeezing the tank with your legs just before the brakes are applied and to use your core muscles to keep the weight off the arms.

Practice that until it is a reflex.

BTY the OP mentioned that he just got a bike 2 months ago. Mt. Hamilton and Del Puerto are pretty advanced skill roads. If by chance that is his first bike, riding them at all is risky and by yourself is adding much more risk.

Last edited by NorCal Factory; 05-20-2012 at 08:12 PM..
NorCal Factory is offline  
Old 05-21-2012, 05:22 PM   #9
Hank Wong
Veteran
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain View
Motorcycles: 2001 BMW R1100RS
Name:
Sorry to hear about your crash. It happens. Based on your description of the incident, you are a smart rider who has had a tough experience. Regarding target fixation, say to yourself 'got it' and look away for what's next. To not look away is to invite trouble because you are moving at speed. Even at a manageable speed, you will still lose your line and smoothness if you pay attention to the hazard after it is registered in your mind. This is true with any road hazards gravel, water, dead squirrel. You will find that once the hazard is registered with you, you will control your speed and steering accordingly. And if you are going too fast and will not steer clear, you are still better off with your eyes forward and on smooth throttle and steering control when you run over it. One way to practice this is to find a road with arrays of those round white speed rumblers like those on the Empire Grade Road. You will find that you will ride right thru the middle quiet part by looking ahead and by not looking at them again as you approach.
Hank Wong is offline  
Old 05-22-2012, 01:03 AM   #10
RhythmRider
Still Rhythm Rydin'
 
RhythmRider's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2821744
Barf Brick Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Motorcycles: S1000R, SV650N
Name: Aaron
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzrider View Post
What can he do to get his attention unstuck?
To answer the question, I'd say picking up his eyes and looking where he wants to go would take his attention off of the danger and promote a save. Drawing from personal experience, once true target fixation occurs with no previous mental preparation, I'm not sure it can be effectively broken. I've target fixated in the past, and typically what has happened is I would continue looking at the danger while the rest of my body attempted to take some kind of evasive action. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone, but I believe it takes a concentrated mental effort to break the fixation, which may not be possible with all remaining attention being placed on the evasive reaction. Also depending on the situation, there might not be enough time to recognize and intentionally counteract the target fixation once it's happened. In my opinion, one must be mentally prepared for these situations and conditioned to react constructively.

Last edited by RhythmRider; 05-22-2012 at 01:06 AM..
RhythmRider is offline  
Old 05-22-2012, 02:50 PM   #11
Jello_Biafra
bbrraaappp
 
Jello_Biafra's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South Bae
Motorcycles: Front brake on the left
Name: Kyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary856 View Post
My belief of target fixation is it's the result of being overwhelmed, but not the cause. If you avoid being overwhelmed, you would not target fixate. What overwhelmed you? Excessive speed.
This is my thought too. Riding a bit over your head leaves you with less mental capacity and time to focus on the fundamental stuff like getting your eyes up.
Jello_Biafra is offline  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:41 PM   #12
Zenica
Rookie
 
Zenica's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SAN JOSE
Motorcycles: Ex650R totall loss :(
Name: Jasko
Sorry for crash hope you fix bike soon.
Yeah i have same problem with fixating target like gravel and can not turn. It is excessive speed that overwhelm us new riders. Just i was lucky to snap out of it in last moment and brake enough to turn my eyes of side of the road to focus on exit target. Best is go in slow and out faster but again not to fast.
Zenica is offline  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:57 PM   #13
tzrider
Write Only User
 
tzrider's Avatar
 
BARF Admin
Contributor +

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Motorcycles: Kaw N1K
Name: Andy
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmRider View Post
To answer the question, I'd say picking up his eyes and looking where he wants to go would take his attention off of the danger and promote a save. Drawing from personal experience, once true target fixation occurs with no previous mental preparation, I'm not sure it can be effectively broken. I've target fixated in the past, and typically what has happened is I would continue looking at the danger while the rest of my body attempted to take some kind of evasive action.
Aaron thanks for posting. Your first sentence above really is the action a rider must take. As you mention, it's sometimes difficult to do. We are somewhat instinctually wired to watch a threat once we see one and when you consider the kinds of threats we evolved to deal with, that is appropriate.

When riding a motorcycle, we create this artificial construct, where inanimate objects are a threat, not because they are moving towards us, but because we are moving towards them. We watch the thing in preparation for a fight, but what we need to do is avoid hitting it. Looking where we want to go is the first step, and we need to do this at least a half second before we initiate a direction change to be effective.

An Air Force Colonel named John Boyd coined the term OODA Loop. The acronym stands for Observe Orient Decide Act. The concept was first developed to help fighter pilots deal with incoming threats, but it has found applications in other forms of combat, business and I have found it a useful idea in riding.

The OODA loop describes four steps that take place between the time we see a threat to the time we begin to act. Cumulatively, the steps add up to about a half a second; this is the delay we experience when we see a threat (observe), recognize that it is a threat (orient), decide what we're going to do (decide) and act (act).

We could steer away from a patch of sand without first looking where we want to go, but if we haven't looked soon enough, we may point the bike at something equally problematic. It's very difficult to make ourselves steer into "no space," which is what it feels like when we steer without first looking at our target. What we instead tend to do is stare at the obstacle and freeze on the controls until its too late.

The best way I know of to condition ourselves to keep our eyes moving is to make it a regular habit, even a drill while riding. There will still be things that catch our attention once in a while, but it's easier to break the grip when we've practiced it and know that it's necessary.
__________________
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

California Superbike School tzrider's blog
tzrider is offline  
Old 05-23-2012, 06:05 PM   #14
yelow748
i have gas
 
yelow748's Avatar
 
Founding Member
Contributor+++++ / Barf Brick Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: fremont
Motorcycles: 2001 ST2 totalled loss, 998sFE
Name: Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironrider View Post
Hello all,

HOME:
I decide to stash my parts in a bush and ride back home over Mt Hamilton. The ride home goes surprisingly well, just kept her in 2nd gear. I get home, shower, scrub and dis-infect wounds and bandage. Jump in the car and head straight back to Patterson on Freeways (driving with right arm only). I got to the crash site about 8pm, just before sunset. NO FAIRING! What!? I saw maybe 10 vehicles in an hour on Del Puerto Canyon. I was gone from 3pm to 8pm. In 5 hrs someone came across my parts, hidden from view, and picked them up. What are the odds of that? Who would even bother? Boggles my mind.

Summary:
Rough lesson on target fixation, but could have been much worse.
Glad I was wearing gear, but wish I had worn better. No more textile jackets, leather is king. Note: I had the winter liner removed. Im sure that made it worse.
Currently missing full front assembly (headlight, mirrors, signals, fairing). If anyone comes across this, or has one they can sell, let me know.


Any tips or drills on how to get rid of this bad Target Fixation habit would be very much appreciated! Please be gentle…

BTW, my total riding experience is just under 2000 miles over the last 10 years. Both cruiser and sport bike.

Thanks,
Glad you came out relatively okay
Been out that way many times and have target fixated on the cattle crossings.
I have found that tension even just a little tends to start in the jaws by the
way of clenched teeth and works it's way down to the shoulders, arms,
wrist and upper body. A simple solution to relax the jaw is to chew gum, if you can walk and chew gum then by all counts you should be able to ride
and chew gum. That's just one small thing that used to get me.
Relax your shoulders and drop your elbows and no death grip on the bars.
As far as target fixation goes.
Start with sight lines, as far as you can see in front of you.
But one of the most important things ( and there are many important things to remember ) is to keep your chin up and eyes up, by dropping your chin you drop your eyes there fore shortening your line of sight
( got that from CE II ).
Another important thing is look where you want to go, not what you want to avoid . Keep your eyes and head moving, identify , asses and call out who's next .
About your parts ,,, out there by graffiti rock, there be home less people.
They may have stashed your parts else where or taken them out to Patterson to sell.
This is the corner correct, skip to 7:20

youtu.be/WgVCs0cm-Ds
__________________
RIP Mom 08/08/2019
RIP Dad 07/23/2019

Three rules to remember when getting older ...
Never waste a hard on and never trust a fart.. and Never pass up a bathroom

Last edited by yelow748; 05-24-2012 at 06:26 PM..
yelow748 is offline  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:05 AM   #15
czeeb
Veteran
 
czeeb's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CA
Motorcycles: 2015 BMW S1000R 2011 ZX10r Track bike
Name: Curtis
+1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
czeeb is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
crash , target fixation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.