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Old 09-30-2020, 10:25 AM   #106
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Most unburnt natural gas emissions are from oil extractions/mining. Its a total wastes and its add so oil extraction GHG emissions in a major way.
It looks like all industrial processes account for ~1/3 of the total anthropogenic global methane budget, and part of that is electric production too...

https://www.carbonbrief.org/scientis...hane-emissions

If you mean to say that banning residential natural gas sales is a waste, then I'd agree. Residential use has to be an insignificant contribution even considering extraction/mining. One article said that 98% of US residential GHG emissions were CO2.

The remaining ~2/3 of the anthropogenic global methane budget appears to be agricultural, probably mostly in beef production. Cities should ban the sale of red meat if they wanted to make any sort of environmental impact. Wouldn't that be one or two orders of magnitude more effective? It would make great media stories for sure... Nobody seems to care about our gas stoves and central heat.
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Old 09-30-2020, 11:25 AM   #107
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LOL
I mean, really???
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Old 09-30-2020, 04:23 PM   #108
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The moto industry is in a decline or the electric Moto industry.
Both, right now. Sad to say.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:52 PM   #109
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It looks like all industrial processes account for ~1/3 of the total anthropogenic global methane budget, and part of that is electric production too...

https://www.carbonbrief.org/scientis...hane-emissions

If you mean to say that banning residential natural gas sales is a waste, then I'd agree. Residential use has to be an insignificant contribution even considering extraction/mining. One article said that 98% of US residential GHG emissions were CO2.

The remaining ~2/3 of the anthropogenic global methane budget appears to be agricultural, probably mostly in beef production. Cities should ban the sale of red meat if they wanted to make any sort of environmental impact. Wouldn't that be one or two orders of magnitude more effective? It would make great media stories for sure... Nobody seems to care about our gas stoves and central heat.
Agreed. Residential NG is efficient for heating, water heaters, stove burners, dryers. I would love to convert my dryer and stove to NG. Offload some of the electrical grid to important stuff - AC.

Regarding Beef. The largest farm subsidies that are left over from the Cold War are for animal feeds to make beef production cheap. We know now that too much animal protein in the American diet is causing health issues, so remove the subsidies, let the prices rise naturally. Consumption will go down and Americans and the earth will be healthier. Tax payers will be happy.
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:43 AM   #110
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I also don't get why gov targets off-road vehicles. Even if you banned all of them, new and old, what is their relative contribution to GHG?

According to this left-leaning source, dirt bikes and ATVs combined use 681 million gallons of the 143 billion gallons of overall US gas consumption. That's 0.5% in total, and a very small part of that would be from new vehicles, which are probably more efficient anyway.

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/as...zed-recreation

It's like they sit around figuring out what environmental policy can be implemented that effects the broadest number of people, negatively affects a specific industry, and that has the least effect on GHG emissions.

And any tax money used for subsidies will just end up in some other gov pocket.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:21 AM   #111
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I also don't get why gov targets off-road vehicles. Even if you banned all of them, new and old, what is their relative contribution to GHG?

According to this left-leaning source, dirt bikes and ATVs combined use 681 million gallons of the 143 billion gallons of overall US gas consumption. That's 0.5% in total, and a very small part of that would be from new vehicles, which are probably more efficient anyway.

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/as...zed-recreation

It's like they sit around figuring out what environmental policy can be implemented that effects the broadest number of people, negatively affects a specific industry, and that has the least effect on GHG emissions.

And any tax money used for subsidies will just end up in some other gov pocket.
This is my problem with government run agencies like ARB. There is little motivation to make effective changes, since those who are making the changes have little skin in the game compared to private industry. They are simply trying to check the boxes, and it is way easier to check the box that you did something if you pick on some dirt bikers instead of take on the offshore shipping industry for instance.

I think if these organizations really had their priorities straight, and weren't operated by people trying to justify their existence through red tape, we would see much different policies in place.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:30 AM   #112
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The moto industry is at a decline?

Not this year.

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news...pite-pandemic/

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news...orcycle-sales/
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:15 PM   #113
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It doesn't force you to get rid of your gas car/motorcycle etc. New vehicles will be the ones mandated to be electric. I don't really see an issue with this. By that time electric tech will be much farther along. Charging infrastructure will be far more built out.

Just buy your 2034 gas powered vehicles.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:20 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by ctwo View Post
I also don't get why gov targets off-road vehicles. Even if you banned all of them, new and old, what is their relative contribution to GHG?

According to this left-leaning source, dirt bikes and ATVs combined use 681 million gallons of the 143 billion gallons of overall US gas consumption. That's 0.5% in total, and a very small part of that would be from new vehicles, which are probably more efficient anyway.

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/as...zed-recreation

It's like they sit around figuring out what environmental policy can be implemented that effects the broadest number of people, negatively affects a specific industry, and that has the least effect on GHG emissions.

And any tax money used for subsidies will just end up in some other gov pocket.
It's not just GHG, it's also noise pollution. You could have more OHV parks and closer OHV parks if people didn't have crazy loud engines/modifications. Imagine a motocross track only a few blocks away that you can't hear. Or in-door motocross tracks that you can ride year-round no green/red sticker BS. Also, you don't lose hearing just by being at the track.

The benefits are not just GHG - but a range of things.

Regulations are not inherently bad. Some regulations are bad, others save human health/our planet/what we enjoy.
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:16 PM   #115
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It's not just GHG, it's also noise pollution. You could have more OHV parks and closer OHV parks if people didn't have crazy loud engines/modifications. Imagine a motocross track only a few blocks away that you can't hear. Or in-door motocross tracks that you can ride year-round no green/red sticker BS. Also, you don't lose hearing just by being at the track.

The benefits are not just GHG - but a range of things.

Regulations are not inherently bad. Some regulations are bad, others save human health/our planet/what we enjoy.
Those are great points. Too bad this legislation does nothing to address those concerns because those OHV parks will be filled with outdated, loud as fuck, emission mongering relics. The new stuff is way better...

A BAN on the USE and OWNERSHIP of vehicles that are 15+ years or older would be effective. Are you game, or just talk? Put a sunset date on your toys. Does that work for you? (not you specifically, just rhetorically)
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:27 PM   #116
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I went to plug in my Chargepoint charger and the app had a message "please avoid charging from 8am to 10 PM to avoid over taxing the power grid".

Hahahahahahahaha!
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:50 AM   #117
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A BAN on the USE and OWNERSHIP of vehicles that are 15+ years or older would be effective. Are you game, or just talk? Put a sunset date on your toys. Does that work for you? (not you specifically, just rhetorically)
I'm happy to give them up - it's not giving up toys, it's giving up specific toys for other toys. I'm okay with that if it means not living in a hellscape lol. I've already known my next truck will be electric - my current one should last a really long time, same with the motorcycle. At that point I'll go down, do the same stuff I always do when buying a car except it will have a giant battery. Not much of a change for me.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:45 AM   #118
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Y'all are paying too much for reg, how is that? My '17 colorado is only $250 a year.
Your Colorado doesn't have all the weight fees.
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Old 10-03-2020, 02:35 AM   #119
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Name a new technology that lead to people using less energy.

The telegraph just made people send more messages.

The steam ship just made people immigrate more.

Amazon just made people buy more crap from half way around the world.

Newspaper websites used to be more efficient but now with all the added videos and javascript it costs more to download one article than to print a whole newspaper.

US Videogamers consume 75 billion kWh a year.

US Crypto miners consume 145 billion kWh a year.

The only reason Electric vehicles are more efficient right now is because the cars and the infrastructure sucks. Once they're as good as combustion vehicles and infra, and autonomous vehicles stop driving into the back of cop cars, people will drive way more than they do currently and offset any efficiencies they once had.

Noisy motorcycles do more for the environment than electric motorcycles because they repel humans.

The most eco-friendly car is one that people refuse to drive.

Ban safety equipment. It'll make cars more dangerous, lighter, more aerodynamic and therefore incredibly eco-friendly.

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Old 10-03-2020, 05:52 AM   #120
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Name a new technology that lead to people using less energy.
It's not that we will use more energy, that's a certainty as more humans are born. It's the type of energy we utilize that matters and how we produce that energy.
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