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Old 02-14-2018, 09:51 AM   #1
uok2
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Thill 2/12/18 T10 crash

I am still learning so be kind....
I DID miss a bunch of apexs on my own but since i am on a 600 I have a hard time catching some of the 1000s on the straights so have to carry corner speed to keep up. Also i didnt want to cut the front of some guys so tried to give room.
I had some traffic to get around but soon as i did I was ready to try out a new break marker at T10. I stabbed the breaks too hard, had too much weight over the nose, lifted the rear, unsetteled the bike, lost focus(should have just blown the apex and turned late and stayed on track)....once i lost focus, hit the dirt....the wall felt like it was coming fast and lock up rear....the rest is just good times track story for friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx0t77xYnGk&t=4s
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:47 PM   #2
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upping your corner speed so that it forces u to take a shitty line and delay opening the throttle is a great way to go SLOWER with a lot more risk. don't do that.

u gotta learn to pass on the inside. getting squeezed to the outside of the track w/ that much speed delta is dangerous for u and the other rider.

u froze up, forgot to turn in, pulled the lever harder, and target fixated off track. there wasn't "too much weight over the front". your first brake application was fine and at pretty much the same spot as the previous lap. the second panic-induced brake application is what got u.

try not to rush the corner. braking harder and later is going to net you hundredths of a second per corner. braking smoother, less, and staying on line will net you multiple tenths of a second per corner.
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Last edited by stangmx13; 02-14-2018 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:15 PM   #3
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Looked like the one time you went into that corner with no one in front of you. I would say you were carrying more speed into the corner but still tried to use the same brake marker

Once you thought you were going to fast you reacted by grabbing more brake which helped "stand you up"

I went off there once in a race you can ride it straight down to the right of the wall. I rode across where the skid pan is now and back to the pits.

When your speed increases you have to change your markers, work into it gradually
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:26 AM   #4
uok2
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thanks stangmx13 and scotinexcile.....great advice. Soon as my hand(and bike) are fixed i will get back out there and hopfully get an "after" video with learnings. thanks again
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:15 AM   #5
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As mentioned, your braking in T10, and your tendency to miss apexes there and elsewhere and drift to the outside is killing you. What I suggest you try is looking at both the apex and where you want to let OFF the brakes, rather than trying to set a fixed braking point ( which changes constantly anyway). What I think happened was that you botched a shift, shifted your vision to the outside of the corner and went where you looked.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:36 AM   #6
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just adding to what the others have said about braking markers...

if you are aiming for some comfortable apex speed, fixed and aggressive braking markers are largely useless and dangerous when your pace varies so much lap to lap. inconsistent drive, inconsistent corner speed, traffic, etc - it all affects your speed at a marker and therefore affects how much u need to brake to get to a given apex speed.

it takes years to develop the skills needed to judge all this so that u can brake to the same apex speed every lap at a trackday. so until then, its a good idea to err on the side of caution. brake early, assess your speed, and maybe brake a little lighter if u are over-slowing. doing that is way safer than trying to brake later and finding out that u don't have the skills to still make the corner. u still get an approximate marker, its just conservative.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:12 PM   #7
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what he said
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by stangmx13 View Post
just adding to what the others have said about braking markers...

if you are aiming for some comfortable apex speed, fixed and aggressive braking markers are largely useless and dangerous when your pace varies so much lap to lap. inconsistent drive, inconsistent corner speed, traffic, etc - it all affects your speed at a marker and therefore affects how much u need to brake to get to a given apex speed.

it takes years to develop the skills needed to judge all this so that u can brake to the same apex speed every lap at a trackday. so until then, its a good idea to err on the side of caution. brake early, assess your speed, and maybe brake a little lighter if u are over-slowing. doing that is way safer than trying to brake later and finding out that u don't have the skills to still make the corner. u still get an approximate marker, its just conservative.
+1
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:34 AM   #9
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+10000 for what Rob said above.

I also noticed that you were letting go off the brake too abrupt and going on the throttle too abrupt as well, and too early. This unloads the front too quickly and you lose traction mid corner and can lead you to low side. Turn 3 is off camber and a common place for people to crash that are doing that.

I noticed you doing it a lot at turn 3 and 9, you were going on the throttle way before the apex and way before you hit max lean angle.

Additionally, I want to point out that you need to be less abrupt with your lines when riding behind someone. This is a problem for somebody riding behind you and trying to pass you as well. Rather than get close and try to find a spot to pass then, try to be more proactive and think about your passing strategy way before, and if you need to slow down a bit more to be smoother, then that may be safer. For example, turn 1 passes, you braked on the same marker as usual and then tried an outside pass with more corner speed, constantly overshooting and running too wide and risky, some of the guys even passed you back on the inside. Instead, brake slightly earlier and keep a distance, then run your normal corner speed and get on the throttle and try an inside pass on the throttle exiting the corner into T2. Much safer that way.

Sorry if I'm being too harsh, and heal up quick so you can get back out there
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:50 AM   #10
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Lines first, then speed
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:26 PM   #11
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Lines first, then speed
I second this. You really need to be smoother and be able to put your bike on line. I would go so far as say slow it down a bit and focus on nailing your entries and then after that add in exits and with those together you should be able to start to feed some pace back in and keep the bike on line.

If you're tracking your laptimes you should/want to see some consistency.

I'm not fast at all, but my laps tend to be within 10ths and 100ths of each other when i'm at my pace. I use my reference points (all 5 if i got 'em), engine speed, gear, traffic, bike position all as feedback to whats working and whats not and whether or not i've improved or worsened.

If you do everything differently for every turn on every lap you will never know what is or is not working for you and that is what i felt from your video.

All the other technical feedback here is great, and these guys know what they're doing, so definitely take that into account.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:35 AM   #12
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thanks all...
stings a little but learning can be like that sometimes. By the time i fix bike i should be healed up and WILL be heading back out with all comments in mind.
thanks again all.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:35 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by uok2 View Post
thanks all...
stings a little but learning can be like that sometimes. By the time i fix bike i should be healed up and WILL be heading back out with all comments in mind.
thanks again all.
Heal quick! And hope to see you out there!
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Old 02-21-2018, 03:09 PM   #14
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Uok2, another observation that isn't directly related to this crash: You seem to spend a lot of time to the outside of the leading rider's line in corners. Note that if they fall, they'll slide right into your path and potentially collect you. I'd minimize the amount of time you spend there to avoid a future thread.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:26 AM   #15
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Agreed, I'd suggest that you take a look at Ken Hill's podcasts and listen to them. I'd suggest that you work with an instructor as much as possible. You're at the danger point now of just fast enough to be in A group, but not really in possession of the skills needed to go faster or safer.
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