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Old 12-06-2018, 04:59 PM   #1
BlkBeauty
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Power Commander 5 Mapping for HD Road Glide

Quick update: I am a novice but am taking the opportunity to learn-while-doing.

I've just installed a new Freedom Performance full exhaust (Big Radius Sharp Curves) along with the Kuryakyn (Mach 2) air intake and Power Commander 5. I'm looking for an "optimal" map by which to do my daily riding (some commute, some pleasure). By this I mean to say, I'm not a drag strip/street racer - I don't need, nor want, the "Evel Kneivel" setting. As for my bike, 2016 HR Road Glide 103 engine.


**The PC website "suggests" using a map which is similar to the products on my 'specific' motorcycle**

Help please...so I can be back #On2Wheels
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:08 PM   #2
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You should be able to run the bike on any map described as close to your hardware situation. It just might not be ideal for what you’re looking for. After I installed my PC, I downloaded all the maps available that were remotely close to my exhaust and intake arrangement. I installed a simple map and tried it for a few days, then made some notes including spark plug inspection after each few days of running. I went through 5 maps before I found the one I liked the best and then I did a little more adjustment cuz it was running a little rich. Always name or identify your maps for ease of use and every time you adjust the settings save the map with a version number or some way of identifying. I use an old tablet pc dedicated to this purpose, it takes five minutes to change maps. I really enjoyed the whole process,it was amazingly simpler then I thought it would be. You only need to visually check one plug, they should both be doing the same thing, blow out the area around the plug before each removal, you might consider a better plug, I don’t know Harley’s? I saw a good improvement with very basic hardware changes. You’re situation you may well see superior improvement. Check the plugs when the engine is cool, hot aluminum threads are easily damaged.
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Last edited by David919; 12-06-2018 at 09:05 PM..
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:07 PM   #3
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David919 - one thing I've always wondered ... in the old school way of changing a jet, I wonder what % increase that is in the PCV world?

So say in ye old days a person went from a 160 main jet to a 165 main jet. In the PCV days, what % increase in fueling might equate to that?

I worry that people go into edit mode in a map and start changing fueling by dramatic differences you'd never do with jetting. Like if you had a bike with 160 main jets, you wouldn't say "hum, let me try these 250 main jets in there". Or vice versa, they change their map and it is like going from a 160 main to a 162 main.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:47 AM   #4
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I couldn’t begin to calculate what a jet size change does for fueling percentages. I’m sure there is someone who has done rejetting with an answer to that. I wouldn’t make drastic changes to the maps, a little at a time would be wiser. The only serious carb work I ever did was to try and sync the carbs on my cb450 and I don’t think I did the best job of it. The way the maps for Power Commanders are layed out, they actually display what percentage of fueling is being used at a specific rpm. You can compare one map to another and see the differences. You can change them individually or in groups, low, med or high rpm ranges. I don’t have a dynomometer, this would be the correct way to do this. I combined the electronic fueling map control with the only two ways of checking I had. The smell of the exhaust and the burning conditions visually demonstrated by the spark plugs.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:54 AM   #5
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The Power Commander should have come with a stock map for the bike specified and from what I read on various forums about my bike, should be sufficient to run the engine even after alot of hardware changes. My bike is your basic inline 4, donít know how much of a difference a vtwin makes things.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:53 PM   #6
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@David919 Thanks for reaffirmation that I am on the "right track," here. I will so more to track/monitor the current mapping I chose (closest configuration I could find). Thus far, Day 1 of testing, I'm enjoying the present setting and will have a look at the plugs over the next 3-4days. I know many BARFers don't own/ride/like H-Ds so, any help given is greatly appreciated
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:08 PM   #7
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It'll run, but almost certainly will have spots in the rev range where it's way too fat and other parts where it's way too lean. Those generic maps are garbage. Go pay a few hundred bucks for a proper dyno tune for your specific setup and be done with it.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:17 PM   #8
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It'll run, but almost certainly will have spots in the rev range where it's way too fat and other parts where it's way too lean. Those generic maps are garbage. Go pay a few hundred bucks for a proper dyno tune for your specific setup and be done with it.

Guess who has to wait until xmas shopping is done??
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:30 PM   #9
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I've compared a couple factory maps to custom tunes and they are never right. If you really care, get it logged on a dyno or street and create a tune from that.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:04 PM   #10
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You’ve already spent the money but power commanders really aren’t the best for HD. Master Tune is the way to go unless you’re worried about having your warranty voided by the MoCo
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:39 PM   #11
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Master Tune is the way to go unless you’re worried about having your warranty voided by the MoCo
bad info as mastertune locks out the ecm and hardly will have a field day.
Power commanders don't void warranties. the maps for pcv are starting points for tuning as well. They are stupid easy to adjust and if you're worried about the warranty I hope you haven't changed the pipes or are not using anything but Harley branded oil.

If you have questions about the pcv or powervision I was formerly one of the guys you'd talk to at dynojet when calling for help. Just on me and I can give you a hand.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:44 PM   #12
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Best way to do it is to complete all engine mods and then put it on a chassis dyno and map for optimum air:fuel ratio across the rpm range.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by usedtobefast View Post
David919 - one thing I've always wondered ... in the old school way of changing a jet, I wonder what % increase that is in the PCV world?

So say in ye old days a person went from a 160 main jet to a 165 main jet. In the PCV days, what % increase in fueling might equate to that?

I worry that people go into edit mode in a map and start changing fueling by dramatic differences you'd never do with jetting. Like if you had a bike with 160 main jets, you wouldn't say "hum, let me try these 250 main jets in there". Or vice versa, they change their map and it is like going from a 160 main to a 162 main.
http://www.historicmotorcycle.org.au...carby/jets.txt has a few numbers

lets look at going from 1.04mm to 1.06mm
that's a Keihin 108 to 110, a DynoJet 104 to 106, a Mikuni 97.5 to 100. Flow rate goes from 2.69 to 2.79, which is 3.7%.

so, if the % gain per jet size is consistent as sizes vary, you have much more ability to fine tune with a Power Commander - I don't recall exactly what intervals they allow, but think it's at least 1%.

disclaimer: I haven't verified the info on the web site I linked, which is just something I found on google.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:53 PM   #14
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http://www.historicmotorcycle.org.au...carby/jets.txt has a few numbers

lets look at going from 1.04mm to 1.06mm
that's a Keihin 108 to 110, a DynoJet 104 to 106, a Mikuni 97.5 to 100. Flow rate goes from 2.69 to 2.79, which is 3.7%.

so, if the % gain per jet size is consistent as sizes vary, you have much more ability to fine tune with a Power Commander - I don't recall exactly what intervals they allow, but think it's at least 1%.

disclaimer: I haven't verified the info on the web site I linked, which is just something I found on google.

I'd just give the Power Commander folks a call and see what they say. A cheap phone call and a few minutes.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:20 PM   #15
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I hope it's ok to put my 2 cents in here since this is what we do daily. There are a number of tuning packages out there. There is the Power Commander III and V, the Power Vision, TTS Master Tune, there used to be Harleys Screaming Eagle Super Tuner, (now been replaced by My Tune and I donít think itís a very good replacement) and then there are a bunch of self-tuning packages.
The package BRG likes the best is Power Vision. Bang for buck its VERY good. It gives us good access to all the tuning parameters in the ECU. Power Visionís tech support through Dynojet is excellent. We charge $225.00 for the P.V. license and $475.00 Dyno time. TTS is also excellent software, and their support is excellent as well, talking to Steve is always an education. The cost to purchase the TTS software and cabling is $450 to $500.00. Then you need to learn how to use the software or pay someone like me to tune it. The self-tuning products, (and there are many) ok but they can only look at the fuel ratio, NO ignition timing. So yes you can get your air/fuel at what they think is optimal. You know that magic number of 14.7, but without looking at the timing and being able to know where to go with it, the tune is only half done. There is a LOT of torque and horsepower to be had with reworking the ignition timing on the Harley motor. Also, the tuning requirement from the front and the back cylinder are way different from each other. So you need to tune each cylinder separately.
Your Power Commander will work ok, In advanced tune settings, you have control over the fuel and the ignition on both cylinders. Tuning it is pretty straight forward. We charge to tune with Power Commander unit $425.00 Dyno time.
We have had so many come in and have us tune their bike after trying one of the pre-made maps. On average they arenít very close to what the bike needs. Each bike will tune differently, they are NEVER the same. We build our maps to what each bike and each engine (stock or modified) needs. Based on RPM and throttle position on the Dyno. We use a 4 gas analyzer CO/HC/CO2/O2 and a wideband together. Got a downloaded tune? Bring it in for a baseline test and I will show you where it could be better, usually A LOT better. Are you interested in getting it tuned?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkBeauty View Post
Quick update: I am a novice but am taking the opportunity to learn-while-doing.

I've just installed a new Freedom Performance full exhaust (Big Radius Sharp Curves) along with the Kuryakyn (Mach 2) air intake and Power Commander 5. I'm looking for an "optimal" map by which to do my daily riding (some commute, some pleasure). By this I mean to say, I'm not a drag strip/street racer - I don't need, nor want, the "Evel Kneivel" setting. As for my bike, 2016 HR Road Glide 103 engine.


**The PC website "suggests" using a map which is similar to the products on my 'specific' motorcycle**

Help please...so I can be back #On2Wheels
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