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Old 01-08-2019, 08:36 AM   #31
fubar929
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Originally Posted by PrincessFalafal View Post
I've never liked the Roadcrafter much. I wear an old Olympia Phantom suit most of the time.
I have a buddy who bought a Phantom. I can get into and out of the Roadcrafter much faster than he can get into and out of the Phantom, the Roadcrafter feels more durable, the Roadcrafter has seemingly better armor, and the latest Roadcrafter zippers seem less likely to leak than the ones on his suit. I honestly wish I'd bought my RoadCrafter 10 years sooner than I did, for whatever that's worth...

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I'm curious as to why you wouldn't commute on a Ducati.
Wasn't that clear from my post? Putting miles on a Ducati ruins their resale value. Unless you're willing to ride that Multi into the ground, you'd be better off buying a Japanese bike: FJ-09/Tracer 900, Kawasaki Versys, Honda Africa Twin, Suzuki V-strom, etc.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:40 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by PrincessFalafal View Post
Yup, the dealer quoted me $3k for the next six services. Due to the current mileage on the bike, that would mean I could get up to three Desmo services out of that (which I've had quoted anywhere from $1,500-$1,900 each). So I'd be covered for the major services on the bike through over 60,000 miles.

Why wouldn't you commute on a Ducati?

If I'm looking for a bike with an upright seating position, big luggage options, keyless ignition, and top-notch suspension and brakes without getting stupidly heavy, there isn't many other options. The Multi 950 S and F850GS Adv are both excellent, but they're new for 2019 and most dealers aren't expecting them in until April. They've also indicated they'll be firm at or even above MSRP, which is very nearly $20k before you even start looking at the options list.



I've never liked the Roadcrafter much. I wear an old Olympia Phantom suit most of the time.

I'm curious as to why you wouldn't commute on a Ducati.

That $3k service program sounds decent - I remember reading about folks with the DVT bikes being quoted about $2k for the major service intervals (every 18k mi).

The Multistradas are great bikes, but just know that as you put miles on them their value plummets. Little things go wrong here and there, and a good dealer will get them covered for you but it can be annoying. AFAIK the rear brake still doesn't work. That said, it's a fantastically fun bike, even for commuting.
FWIW, I had my 2014 Pikes Peak Multi for sale back in 2016, it had 22.4k mi on it (I rode it across the US), had all dealer records, full luggage, lots of extras, and resale value was painful. 22k is engine rebuild time in the Ducati secondary market.
May I suggest you look at a KTM 1290 Super Adventure S, though? I'm not 100% sure if it's got keyless - the 2018 1290 SA R has keyless start&gascap. It's cheaper than the 1260 Multistrada, and overall operating costs will be a lot cheaper than a Ducati - and now's a good time to find deals on leftover KTMs. Seat height may be a bit taller than the Multi. The 1290 motor is amazingly good, and the WP semi-active works well.
Edit: KTM resale isn't a whole lot better (and they have a hard depreciation fall-off right off the bat), but they combine that fun insanity of Ducatis (IMHO) with some cheaper operating costs.

Last edited by NoobCorpse; 01-08-2019 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:46 AM   #33
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Odd that keyless ignition is so unreliable on bikes yet reliable and common in cars.
A car is a 5000-pound Faraday cage with a 40+ pound battery and multiple receivers for the keyless entry/ignition system. Is it really surprising that the technology works better there than it does on a motorcycle, where you have one receiver, a much smaller battery, and are subject to any interference from the surrounding environment?
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:53 AM   #34
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A car is a 5000-pound Faraday cage with a 40+ pound battery and multiple receivers for the keyless entry/ignition system. Is it really surprising that the technology works better there than it does on a motorcycle, where you have one receiver, a much smaller battery, and are subject to any interference from the surrounding environment?
I know exactly what you mean about the Ducati keyless - I had issues at gas stations that seemed to have electronic door sensors near the pumps, or at some shopping centers. Never had an issue with the BMW keyless (2017 model), so maybe it's some frequency that Ducati uses. I'm not sure if KTM keyless has the same issues.

Edit: Friend has a 2018 KTM 1290 SA R, keyless ride + gas cap, says he occasionally gets the same "no key" issues.

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Old 01-08-2019, 09:38 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by fubar929 View Post
A car is a 5000-pound Faraday cage with a 40+ pound battery and multiple receivers for the keyless entry/ignition system. Is it really surprising that the technology works better there than it does on a motorcycle, where you have one receiver, a much smaller battery, and are subject to any interference from the surrounding environment?
Yes it is surprising. What does the weight of the battery have to do with it?
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:52 AM   #36
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Odd that keyless ignition is so unreliable on bikes yet reliable and common in cars.
It's unreliable on Ducatis, just like the rear brake.

Just because something is so common and reliable doesn't mean Ducati won't find a way to mess it up.

OP, get a BMW. Better for commuting since they hold resale even with high miles.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:43 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by NoobCorpse View Post
value plummets, AFAIK the rear brake still doesn't work.

May I suggest you look at a KTM 1290 Super Adventure S, though?
What's this about rear brake problems? That's a new one on me. The bike I'm looking at has just under 13k miles, so I'm hoping I can get the price low enough to deal with most of that depreciation hit.

I will take another look at the 1290, they do have keyless from (I think) 2017 onwards. Last time I sat on one it felt huge and cumbersome, whereas by comparison the Multi PP felt much smaller and lighter. Might be due to the smaller gas tank and lower overall height.

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Originally Posted by fubar929 View Post
Putting miles on a Ducati ruins their resale value. Unless you're willing to ride that Multi into the ground, you'd be better off buying a Japanese bike: FJ-09/Tracer 900, Kawasaki Versys, Honda Africa Twin, Suzuki V-strom, etc.
I do tend to ride my bikes into the ground; my current 2008 V-Strom 650 has almost 90,000 miles on it.

Unfortunately none of those bikes you mentioned have keyless ignition as an option. Of those options I liked the Africa Twin the most for ergos, if it did have keyless it would be a likely buy.

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OP, get a BMW. Better for commuting since they hold resale even with high miles.
The new F850GS Adventure seems like a great bike, but it's damn near $19,000 MSRP and the dealer I spoke to said there's currently only 16 of them in the state. AKA "Yeah, we're not letting this thing go for less than $20k". I test rode a regular F850GS and while the bike did impress me in some ways, it was pretty bland. More of a transportation appliance than something to enjoy. There's no adjustment in the forks (a $19,000 bike and they can't even give a preload adjust?) and the rear shock has no adjustment outside of the two pre-configured riding modes.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:08 PM   #38
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OP, get a BMW. Better for commuting since they hold resale even with high miles.
I agree. The best commuter I had was a K1200s. Heated grips, decent fairing coverage, good ergos and (comparatively) easy, low maintenance.

Sold it after I no longer had a commute.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:41 PM   #39
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What's this about rear brake problems? That's a new one on me. The bike I'm looking at has just under 13k miles, so I'm hoping I can get the price low enough to deal with most of that depreciation hit.

I will take another look at the 1290, they do have keyless from (I think) 2017 onwards. Last time I sat on one it felt huge and cumbersome, whereas by comparison the Multi PP felt much smaller and lighter. Might be due to the smaller gas tank and lower overall height.
I had a '11 and '14 Multi, both bikes had weak/nonexistent rear braking power. They would go back to 'weak'/'barely functioning' after a caliper flip (Ducati recommended fix) and bleed, but otherwise would be useless. The '15 DVT Multi I took a tour on had the same weak symptoms, and other owners reported it was happening as well. Some speculated that the line ran right next to the exhaust, and a decat would help it. Some ducati forum guy named eBrew sold a fabricated heat shield (I had one), it didn't seem to help. I am not sure if the new 18/19 1260 Multis have the same issue, but I'd bet yes.

The 1290 KTMs are great, IMHO don't feel as top-heavy-while-stationary as the '14 Multi did (can't remember the '15 feel, it's been a while since I pushed one around). The WP semi-active suspension is great, but I haven't ridden the Super Adventure equipped ones (I have a '17 1290 Super Duke GT).

I am a big believer in ride the bike you love, and there's a lot to love about the new PP. After owning the '14 model I don't think I'd use one as a commuter / tourer because of the little ducati character flaws and what mileage does to depreciation - but do your own thing. KTM's road bikes definitely have a bit of that "italian insanity" but IMHO they're a bit more thoughtful in their engineering and design (not always haha). I'd heartily recommend at least test riding one to see if you like it, for sure.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:09 PM   #40
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The new F850GS Adventure seems like a great bike, but it's damn near $19,000 MSRP and the dealer I spoke to said there's currently only 16 of them in the state. AKA "Yeah, we're not letting this thing go for less than $20k". I test rode a regular F850GS and while the bike did impress me in some ways, it was pretty bland. More of a transportation appliance than something to enjoy. There's no adjustment in the forks (a $19,000 bike and they can't even give a preload adjust?) and the rear shock has no adjustment outside of the two pre-configured riding modes.
If you're looking at the Multi and you want a bike with all the bells and whistles, look at the S1000XR as well. That's what I ended up going with.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:36 PM   #41
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I agree. The best commuter I had was a K1200s. Heated grips, decent fairing coverage, good ergos and (comparatively) easy, low maintenance.

Sold it after I no longer had a commute.
I actually rented one a few years ago (I think, I can't remember the exact model) and vowed to never ride one again. The split turn signals were a terrible idea, and the linked brake system that would trigger the front brake when stepping on the rear brake was infuriating. It almost made me drop it a few times in parking lots.

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I had a '11 and '14 Multi, both bikes had weak/nonexistent rear braking power.

The 1290 KTMs are great [...] KTM's road bikes definitely have a bit of that "italian insanity" but IMHO they're a bit more thoughtful in their engineering and design (not always haha). I'd heartily recommend at least test riding one to see if you like it, for sure.
I might take a test ride on one, I'm not Anti-KTM as I loved my 690 Enduro. But I'm not sure I'd call them more thoughtful in design, I recall just how much of my 690 was broken from the factory. Bad rocker arms, melting turn signals, useless headlight, time bomb of a fuel pump, weak tank/subframe bolts, stupid fuel filler design, weak shock collar, etc. I would hope the 1290 has less stupidity on it.

The electronic suspension I'm kinda split on. The lazy old man in me would enjoy the push-button convenience and ability to mellow out the bike when I'm feeling soft. The hoon in me knows and likes his manually adjustable clickers and shiny Ohlins stuff that comes on the PP.

Fuck I wish my V-strom wasn't dying on me and I could have gotten another year out of it. I feel like in 2-3 years more of the smaller bikes will have keyless and will be on the lightly used market, because really I don't need the power of the big Multi or the 1290. I'd be quite happy with the 950 or 790 in terms of power, if they would just have the other features I'm looking for.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:56 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by mrzuzzo View Post
If you're looking at the Multi and you want a bike with all the bells and whistles, look at the S1000XR as well. That's what I ended up going with.
Thanks for the pointer. I'll look at the bike, but just from the pictures on the website it looks like a kinda cramped seating position even if it is more upright. I like a tall seat and a long reach to the pegs for commuting.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:07 PM   #43
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:42 PM   #44
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Fuck I wish my V-strom wasn't dying on me and I could have gotten another year out of it.
Wait! V-stroms die?
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:15 PM   #45
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Wait! V-stroms die?
This is clearly propaganda
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