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Old 01-13-2019, 12:33 PM   #16
Busy Little Shop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer343 View Post
So are you saying you don’t lube your chains because it’s a waste of time? Or do you have a secret way to make it effective? Btw, I’m into chain oilers im just interested in your information
Fact is what we are only lubing are the external roller and between the
roller and the sprockets (red area in my drawing)... we are not lubing the X rings
nor behind the X rings so any oil applied in that effort is wasted fling off...



This is what we don't see behind the X rings... metal to metal wear
every time we adjust the chain that eats into our engine's available
HP... a new pin measures 206.5 and wears down to 205.5 at the 8K mile
mark... looks good to the naked eye but multiply that 1 thousand of an
inch times 108 links and you have 108 thousands of an inch wear or
about the range of the green marks provided by Honda's wear gauge...
202.8 show the very visible wear at the 12K mile mark... the pins are
turning red from extreme heat of grinding dry metal... a chain in this
condition may consume up to 6 to 8% of our RWHP... not to mention it
may snap into and cause case damage...



Some manufactures provided a handy guide to monitor chain wear... stay with
in the green and you'll be looking for a new chain and sprockets at the 8 to
10K mile mark...




I recommend Motul Chain Paste... squeeze the white grease from the
tube and load the brush... Hold the loaded brush to the inside of the
chain rollers to transfer the white grease... After a couple of spins
of the chain it's lubed like from the Factory... Motul Chain Paste
clings with no flings...


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Last edited by Busy Little Shop; 01-13-2019 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:09 PM   #17
Busy Little Shop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
If the oil is reducing running temp, it's because of reduced friction rather than any cooling based on oil flow.
True Oil will reduce friction and help lower temp but the majority of heat still
radiates from the heat of combustion which transfer to the engine oil which
heats the shaft of the transmission and on to the primary sprocket and thus the
chain... I recorded 212F engine oil temp produces over 100F on our chains...

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Old 01-13-2019, 05:05 PM   #18
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It seems to me that some people interpret "o- and x-ring chain links are greased and sealed" equates to "ya don't need to oil the chain". Weird.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:02 AM   #19
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In theory, a chain oiler should extend the life of the chain (outside the sealed areas) and of the sprockets. By how much is debatable.

I still wonder what a good tungsten disulfide treatment of all the chain components (before assembly) and of both sprockets would do for chain life. It seems a perfect application for the material.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:05 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop View Post
True Oil will reduce friction and help lower temp but the majority of heat still
radiates from the heat of combustion which transfer to the engine oil which
heats the shaft of the transmission and on to the primary sprocket and thus the
chain... I recorded 212F engine oil temp produces over 100F on our chains...

I wonder how much of that heat is from friction alone. Wouldn't be hard to build up a test bed to find out.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:18 AM   #21
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I've never liked these for one simple reason....:

They oil down the track/street for oncoming riders....
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:19 AM   #22
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This would be on my NC700X, which will never see the track.

The amount of oil that comes off the chain is negligible vs how much many vehicles leak.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aware View Post
It seems to me that some people interpret "o- and x-ring chain links are greased and sealed" equates to "ya don't need to oil the chain". Weird.
For o/x-ring chains with the beneficial grease/lube sealed inside the rings...

My take is that periodic chain lube/wipe treatments helps keep the external parts of the o/x-rings clean of grit and the seals supple, extending service life until the chain itself eventually succumbs to normal wear and tear.

Added bonus being a visually nice non-rusty looking chain.
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Last edited by mototireguy; 01-15-2019 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mototireguy View Post
For o/x-ring chains with the beneficial grease/lube sealed inside the rings...

My take is that periodic chain lube/wipe treatments helps keep the external parts of the o/x-rings clean of grit and the seals supple, extending service life until the chain itself eventually succumbs to normal wear and tear.

Added bonus being a visually nice non-rusty looking chain.
Inside the rings is not the only place a chain drive system wears. The outside of the rollers and the sprocket teeth also wear. A good lubricating paste is a good idea as mentioned earlier. And if that paste has a high moly or tungsten disulfide content, that's even better. Both of those materials are dry lubricants that work their way into the micro pores and irregularities in the metal surfaces and they stay there after the carrier (the paste itself) is long gone. These two dry lubricants can take extremely high pressure and extremely high temps and that's why they're perfect for chains and sprockets.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ST Guy View Post
In theory, a chain oiler should extend the life of the chain (outside the sealed areas) and of the sprockets. By how much is debatable.
I have had a Scottoiler on my RVF400 for over 1.5 years and in that time I've only had to adjust my chain 1x (due to my oiler running out of oil). I commuted on that bike on average 3.5x/week and put on 10K miles. From my perspective, they absolutely increase the lifespan of your chain. There is one caveat though - no matter how low I turn down my oiler I still end up with it making a mess. On my Tuono V4 I opted to attempt to be better about lubing my chain as I just don't' want to deal with the mess.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:11 PM   #26
Busy Little Shop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mototireguy View Post
My take is that periodic chain lube/wipe treatments helps keep the external parts of the o/x-rings clean of grit and the seals supple, extending service life until the chain itself eventually succumbs to normal wear and tear.
Technically speaking the old rubber O rings are no longer employed by
chain manufactures and the reasons are:

1)Poor Resistance to Drying Out (as you pointed out)
2)High Drag
3)Sealed at only 2 points
4)No Reservoirs of Lube

Currently we have the X rings designed out of the new fluoroelastomer
product known commercially as Viton or Kalrez and reasons are:

1)Excellent Resistance to Drying Out
2)Low Drag
3)Seals at 4 points
4)Grooved Reservoirs of Lube

What that means for us is the fact Viton or Kalrez X rings will be
100% serviceable far beyond a chain's first adjustment mileage point
where metal to metal wear begins to happen at the critical pin and
roller junction...

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Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:24 PM   #27
Busy Little Shop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krooklyn View Post
I have had a Scottoiler on my RVF400 for over 1.5 years and in that time I've only had to adjust my chain 1x (due to my oiler running out of oil). I commuted on that bike on average 3.5x/week and put on 10K miles. From my perspective, they absolutely increase the lifespan of your chain.
I love the mini RC45 but every time you adjust the chain its because of wear
and it will take more of your engines HP to spin the rear wheel... you can track
the drop of HP on the dyno...

This is what you don't see behind the X rings... metal to metal wear
every time you adjust the chain that eats into your engine's available
HP... 206.5 is new 205.5 is at the 8K mile mark... looks good but
multiply 1 thousand of an inch times 108 links and you have 108
thousands of an inch wear or about the range of the green marks
provided by Honda's wear gauge... 202.8 show the very visible wear at
the 12K mile mark... your chain is all pretty on the out side but all rotten
on the inside...

206.5 is new link
205.5 is 8K mile mark (chain worn out)
202.8 is at 12K mile mark (chain abuse... evidence red oxides of harden metal wear)

__________________
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
https://www.youtube.com/user/BusyLittleShop/feed
http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/Bu...?sort=3&page=1
http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/Bu...?sort=3&page=1
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:28 PM   #28
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I bought my Sprint ST with 37000 miles, and a Scottoiler. No idea if the chain had been replaced since new. After using the container of Scottoil that came with the bike, I continued refill the oiler with motor oil. I finally replaced the chain and sprockets just prior to selling the bike with 65000 miles.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop View Post
I love the mini RC45 but every time you adjust the chain its because of wear...




I was alluding to that, but for those that didn't get the hint...
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:41 PM   #30
Busy Little Shop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST Guy View Post
The outside of the rollers and the sprocket teeth also wear.
I agree... but the first sign of wear is always hidden behind the X ring at the
critical pin and roller junction... keep riding far enough to wear out the teeth and
you'll see the red oxides of harden metal exploded pass the X ring... now you're
guilty of chain abuse...

__________________
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
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http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/Bu...?sort=3&page=1
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