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Old 12-05-2013, 05:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
There is no perfect solution to tires or fuel or anything else that can be manipulated by money and political concerns to affect racing. Sometimes spec tires work. Other times they won't.

The only thing we know for sure is spec tires are likely here to stay. As Alex mentioned, spec tire rules take money or resources from teams and give them to the sanctioning bodies. More importantly, they give another element of control to the sanctioning bodies which is the last thing Dorna, DMG or anyone else is willing to give up.
actually.... Dorna pays for all the tires, the teams get them for free. however, this is probably the only case where this happens. i also have no idea if Moto2, Moto3, or WSBK get a similar deal.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:39 PM   #32
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Raptor, would u dare to call an F1 car "not a prototype"?

JO/Jerry would be pulling his hair out w/ everyone throwing the word 'spec' around



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Nope, didn't say that! I was referring the tires only. Those cars don new pieces and parts almost weekly, so they are as close as it gets in this day and age, actually. But even then those pieces and parts have to conform to a certain "Spec" (Jesus, I said it again! Just kidding!) and they are pinned down by certain other base rules and regulations as well, so there is the wrinkle. And when they are forced to go to V6 engines, I may just stop watching. We'll see what they come up with.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:47 PM   #33
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actually.... Dorna pays for all the tires, the teams get them for free. however, this is probably the only case where this happens. i also have no idea if Moto2, Moto3, or WSBK get a similar deal.
I was talking about all series not just MotoGP. While free tires are great, the teams can't extract other money or resources from the tire companies which is good and bad.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:11 PM   #34
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Nope, didn't say that! I was referring the tires only. Those cars don new pieces and parts almost weekly, so they are as close as it gets in this day and age, actually. But even then those pieces and parts have to conform to a certain "Spec" (Jesus, I said it again! Just kidding!) and they are pinned down by certain other base rules and regulations as well, so there is the wrinkle. And when they are forced to go to V6 engines, I may just stop watching. We'll see what they come up with.
oh too bad, u really should have said that. F1 is more spec than MotoGP and has been for a while. the easiest examples that support this are F1s spec ECU, spec software, and almost-spec engines/gearboxes (everyone uses the same ones and they receive no development).

imagine how much chassis development HRC & Yam would do each week if they didn't have electronics to spend their $$ on... u kno, like F1.

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I was talking about all series not just MotoGP. While free tires are great, the teams can't extract other money or resources from the tire companies which is good and bad.
u think Michelin PAID Rossi to run their tires? if so, thats really shitty for the other guys that didn't get that deal.

but ya, spec-tire rules are really shitty for all other series that don't get tires for free.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:28 PM   #35
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oh too bad, u really should have said that. F1 is more spec than MotoGP and has been for a while. the easiest examples that support this are F1s spec ECU, spec software, and almost-spec engines/gearboxes (everyone uses the same ones and they receive no development).

imagine how much chassis development HRC & Yam would do each week if they didn't have electronics to spend their $$ on... u kno, like F1.
See, that is that wrinkle or gray area. You'll notice I didn't single F1 out either way, because it's a kind of a hybrid. SO in F1's case, sure they have a spec ECU & s/w, but those engines are not equal and the money they spend developing new pieces is astronomical and technically excellent. In MotoGP development is slowed by the constant battle of the electronics. Should the electronics package stabilize, we would most likely see innovation take hold in other areas a lot sooner. And let's face it, how much more can they get out of these things anyway? They are nearly at the limit now. Well, those that are fully funded are.

All of this supports the fact that there is no true protoype racing going on any longer. And ironically, the more a series initiates regulations to level the playing field, teams have to spend as much as they can to overcome that regulation, which often times defeats the purpose of the cost cutting measure!
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:34 PM   #36
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u think Michelin PAID Rossi to run their tires? if so, thats really shitty for the other guys that didn't get that deal.

but ya, spec-tire rules are really shitty for all other series that don't get tires for free.
I never said anything about Rossi being paid by Michelin. Thats quite a leap from my post.

My point is that there is good and bad in every program. There are no absolutes.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:04 PM   #37
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See, that is that wrinkle or gray area. You'll notice I didn't single F1 out either way, because it's a kind of a hybrid. SO in F1's case, sure they have a spec ECU & s/w, but those engines are not equal and the money they spend developing new pieces is astronomical and technically excellent. In MotoGP development is slowed by the constant battle of the electronics. Should the electronics package stabilize, we would most likely see innovation take hold in other areas a lot sooner. And let's face it, how much more can they get out of these things anyway? They are nearly at the limit now. Well, those that are fully funded are.

All of this supports the fact that there is no true protoype racing going on any longer. And ironically, the more a series initiates regulations to level the playing field, teams have to spend as much as they can to overcome that regulation, which often times defeats the purpose of the cost cutting measure!
i really don't think arguing that "F1 development is technically excellent therefore its prototype" is valid in any way. development in GP is just as technically excellent and isn't "slowed" by electronics... it IS electronics development. like most development, rate is dependent mostly on $$.

everyone said the same thing 10yrs ago about how fast the bikes could be. don't worry, engineers will find a way.

i used F1 as an example because no one would ever disagree that the series wasn't prototype. your definition of "prototype" and now arguing for "hybrid" is kind of funny. I'm not sure prototype ever meant "not spec" like some seem to think.

so what is true prototype racing? racing w/ no specs of any kind? well that hasn't existed for at least half a century. what about racing one-of-a-kind machinery. yep, still going.

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I never said anything about Rossi being paid by Michelin. Thats quite a leap from my post.

My point is that there is good and bad in every program. There are no absolutes.
sry, rly meant Rossi/Yamaha. easiest example i could think of from recent years of someone getting money from tire manufacturers to run their tires.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:30 PM   #38
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Some of you may have read this article last year in Cycle World but I bet most of you haven't or at least you forgot about it. Read it real quick before you move on to my comments:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/01/24...rrents-racing/

So now that you've hopefully read the article, I will say that it's no big secret that I absolutely detest spec tires and most people who know me have heard me say that more than once. Now I know that Soriano will probably lose his freakin mind again over my "shitty tires" - I'm guessing Bib must've violated his mother and turned her brown eye blue - .

did you just make a my mother got anally raped joke?
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:13 PM   #39
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did you just make a my mother got anally raped joke?
Mess with the bull, you get the horns...

Remember posting this crap and baiting me in the Jeremy Burgess thread:

"It's cool I get it though. A decade of hate built up, unable to be expressed bevause dude runs rampshod all over your shit, even ditching your shitty tires and winning two more titles"

and

"...and just became a place for thr haters to jack themselves off with their zeroxed copies of michelin tire adds"

You chose to make it personal, I didn't. Don't come crying now, sweetheart. Check yo'self, Mista Busta!


youtu.be/HHlBe3BD2-w
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:40 PM   #40
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:00 PM   #41
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Mess with the bull, you get the horns...

Remember posting this crap and baiting me in the Jeremy Burgess thread:

"It's cool I get it though. A decade of hate built up, unable to be expressed bevause dude runs rampshod all over your shit, even ditching your shitty tires and winning two more titles"

and

"...and just became a place for thr haters to jack themselves off with their zeroxed copies of michelin tire adds"

You chose to make it personal, I didn't. Don't come crying now, sweetheart. Check yo'self, Mista Busta!


youtu.be/HHlBe3BD2-w
Where EXACTLY did Kevin insult your family?
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:18 PM   #42
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Where EXACTLY did Kevin insult your family?
Where "EXACTLY" did I insult Kevin's family? Bibendum is a fictitious character, the symbol of a tire company. How 'bout you take Kevin to task for completely unprovoked and direct attacks on ME? Read the quotes I posted, I'm not the one who dragged the Kitchen Sink nonsense into the JB thread. If he can't handle my snarky remarks, maybe advise him to think twice about starting crap in the first place. I don't care that he has 30k posts, I've been around here from the very beginning and I don't have any sort of duty to tolerate his repeated nonsense.

Please take it to PMs if you have anything else to say to me on this subject, otherwise let's not screw up a thread that hopefully got people thinking in a different way about the potential effect of spec tires on Ducati and maybe even Rossi. TIA.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:22 PM   #43
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:26 PM   #44
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This really where you wanna take this, Alex?
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:31 PM   #45
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Where "EXACTLY" did I insult Kevin's family? Bibendum is a fictitious character, the symbol of a tire company. How 'bout you take Kevin to task for completely unprovoked and direct attacks on ME? Read the quotes I posted, I'm not the one who dragged the Kitchen Sink nonsense into the JB thread. If he can't handle my snarky remarks, maybe advise him to think twice about starting crap in the first place. I don't care that he has 30k posts, I've been around here from the very beginning and I don't have any sort of duty to tolerate his repeated nonsense.

Please take it to PMs if you have anything else to say to me on this subject, otherwise let's not screw up a thread that hopefully got people thinking in a different way about the potential effect of spec tires on Ducati and maybe even Rossi. TIA.
Blaming someone else for your behavior is neither sane nor productive. You can take it to pm's if you like, but I'd suggest that you control your emotions, rather than let your emotions control you.
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