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Old 08-19-2016, 05:40 AM   #61
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Hyper SP... sexist moto ever.
I was considering buying one of those until my wife mentioned that it looks like a chicken head from the side.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:03 AM   #62
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WR250s have 26k mile valve adjustments.
Yamaha is just the only one willing to let a certain subset of bikes explode / run with the valves too tight for 6k-10k. There's a pile of R6s out there with thrashed engines at 20k because the valves made it to zero clearance before the first check and the engine eventually burned a valve.

As to the OP, well, the most reliable bike is the one that hasn't been released yet. When the Africa Twin starts racking up the miles, you'll find the bikes that have been improperly assembled, the edge cases on the design, small oversights, etc. Look at the number of recalls on the CBR300.

The bike he's looking for already exists, though, you just have to build it yourself - supermoto suspension on a 1290.

Both my 1290, and my S1000XR have been quite reliable and haven't left me stranded - I expect to put 100k+ on the S1000XR as a commuter, and frankly if anything happens to it I'll just drop in an S1000RR engine.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:25 AM   #63
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I think you are selling KTM short on their quality and reliability. It is not the boutique company it was 20years ago.
Personally rather than going through the trouble of converting a AT. I'd just find a clean, low miles 990SMT.
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Where the hell have you been this entire thread, best advise yet!
I keep lauding it. I know it s discontinued, but my '06 950 Supermoto (I know it isn't a real Supermoto), has been a very reliable, extremely fun bike to ride. It has no ABS, TC or any other aids. It has carbolatirs. It has Brembo, 2 finger, stand It on the front wheel brakes. 8 1/4 inches front and rear, like my........ At 15,100 miles, itate the water pump seal and shaft. They recommended I change it at 15,000 miles, a prettiest damn close guesstimate I'd say. It also lost a oil pressure sending unit at 20k, $11 (I figured it would cost at least $100). Water pump shaft and rebuild kit, lifetime guarantee, $190, install, $175. And that's it. Close to 30k now.

It ain't yo daddy's KTM. Valve clearance has not changed, and I ride it pretty hard. I'm really surprised hey didn't sell more of them. I guess some people feel they look funny. I don't care, it works.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:27 AM   #64
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As to the OP, well, the most reliable bike is the one that hasn't been released yet.
Yeah. The BMW I'm prone to complain about had all sorts of malfunctions, but never left me stranded. That honor goes to two different Honda VFRs.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:51 AM   #65
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Hyper SP... sexist moto ever.
Agreed.
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I was considering buying one of those until my wife mentioned that it looks like a chicken head from the side.
Yeah, but a very fast, sexy chicken!
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:48 AM   #66
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Whether anyone's willing to admit it or not, KTM's and Ducati's are more expensive to own and maintain. They have shorter maintenance intervals. It's the trade of for them being so focused. Yes, we all know how great they are. For those of us who literally ride EVERY DAY and can't really afford multiple bikes, something like an AT shod in fancy rubber is a great proposition. The adventure bikes of late offer many advantages such as great luggage, comfortable ergos, and accessibility. I couldn't afford to own a KTM adventure if it was given to me. Same goes for a Ducati.
My preference is for a 19" front wheel. I like a better approach angle for curbs and stairs. For my use case, a bike that can ride in places that are less than legal with ease is more important than corner grip. That said, I see the value of a 120 front.
Funny that the 18/21 wheel combo is so loved, that's the reservation I have towards the AT. Because of that fact, I prefer and am pursuing a Super Tenere. To me, that bike with the ES for easy preload adjustment takes the everyday bike cake.
Before you go off on the maintenance cost argument, compare costs of a Buell to a KTM. The Buell only requires oil changes and bearing service. NO valve adjustment. NO chain and sprockets. NO water pump. If you look at that standard, most other bikes are pretty needy. The Euro bikes are substantially more needy. We can swap anecdotal stories all day long about reliability, so let's skip that.
At the end of the day, if you're seeking a really fun bike with great utilitarian properties, the OP makes a very solid argument.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:12 AM   #67
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You are mistaken. My KTM takes no more maintenance than any other bike I've owned. The suspension and brakes are superior to any bikes I've ever owned, and that includes an Ohlins/Brembo equipped Ducati. And my 4 valve Ducati didn't require any more maintenance the the KTM. As with the KTM, the valve clearances never changed in 5 1/2 years.

Things were different in the past, but today's Euro bikes are right there with th Japanese bikes as far as build quality and reliability goes.

Belts? A belt is not a high performance option. Ride a Buell as hard as I rise that KTM and Duc that I used to have(and most people that have them, do), they will not hold up like the Euro or Japanese bikes. As far as anecdotal evidence goes, I've owned most of them. I'd own an Africa Twin, or another Duc or KTM, or BMW. If someone gave me a Buell, I'd take it, but no way would I buy one. To me, bikes are toys. Something I beat on. The Buells I've ridden, would not hold up.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:20 AM   #68
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At the end of the day, if you're seeking a really fun bike with great utilitarian properties, the OP makes a very solid argument.
I agree with you. Which is cool because I remember disagreeing with you a number of times in the past, and it's doubly cool because I just realized (D'Oh!) that I know you IRL. I'd never put the screen name together with the person before. In the future, I'll know.

I read the CW test on the AT last night, and it really impresses. The bike is not as heavy as I had feared (not light by any stretch, just not as heavy as early reports had led me to believe), and it gets astonishingly good mileage (I think they averaged 46), and apparently it runs on regular. These things sing to my inner tightwad! The money saved might not pay for a set of BST wheels, but just think about that bike with BST wheels!
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:44 AM   #69
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... I read the CW test on the AT last night, and it really impresses. The bike is not as heavy as I had feared (not light by any stretch, just not as heavy as early reports had led me to believe), and it gets astonishingly good mileage (I think they averaged 46), and apparently it runs on regular. These things sing to my inner tightwad! The money saved might not pay for a set of BST wheels, but just think about that bike with BST wheels!
Read that yesterday as well. Really has me thinking. It's about 100 lbs heavier than my F650, but wads more torque and power. My F650 runs regular as well, so I like that about the AT. I also appreciate the low low center of gravity. I priced one yesterday. Built the way I'd get one would be ~ $13,728.80 MSRP before tax and license. I'd have to add Touratech pannier racks ~ $400.00, but would use my existing boxes. I'd swap over my Clearwaters and GPS. Other than that.... like I said, I'm thinkin' about it.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:02 AM   #70
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I believe you are all missing the sloths point.

He does NOT want a hypermotard. As it is a race bike. Same with the superdouche. It is too a race inspired bike.

What he is looking for is a bike that is supremely comfortable for 600+ mile days, able to be flogged with firm vigor on the back roads and then go home and have to do zero maintenance with no worry about it ever dying on the side of the road.

You can't in your right mind say ducaca and or ktm is on the same level reliability and service cost wise as a Honda. Take for the example rc390 vs r3...

And if for some reason you are still convinced how much better ktm/ducaca/bmw is than jap bikes, wait until something goes like a counter shaft seal. Even under warranty, it'll be a fun experience at the stealership. Euro brand dealers as a whole are rude as heck.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:05 AM   #71
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Read that yesterday as well. Really has me thinking. It's about 100 lbs heavier than my F650, but wads more torque and power. My F650 runs regular as well, so I like that about the AT. I also appreciate the low low center of gravity. I priced one yesterday. Built the way I'd get one would be ~ $13,728.80 MSRP before tax and license. I'd have to add Touratech pannier racks ~ $400.00, but would use my existing boxes. I'd swap over my Clearwaters and GPS. Other than that.... like I said, I'm thinkin' about it.
WTF is going on in that CW article. Do they think holding the camera sideways makes it look like that rider is going down a steep descent? Ridiculous.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:16 AM   #72
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WTF is going on in that CW article. Do they think holding the camera sideways makes it look like that rider is going down a steep descent? Ridiculous.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:16 AM   #73
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You are mistaken. My KTM takes no more maintenance than any other bike I've owned. The suspension and brakes are superior to any bikes I've ever owned, and that includes an Ohlins/Brembo equipped Ducati. And my 4 valve Ducati didn't require any more maintenance the the KTM. As with the KTM, the valve clearances never changed in 5 1/2 years.

Things were different in the past, but today's Euro bikes are right there with th Japanese bikes as far as build quality and reliability goes.

Belts? A belt is not a high performance option. Ride a Buell as hard as I rise that KTM and Duc that I used to have(and most people that have them, do), they will not hold up like the Euro or Japanese bikes. As far as anecdotal evidence goes, I've owned most of them. I'd own an Africa Twin, or another Duc or KTM, or BMW. If someone gave me a Buell, I'd take it, but no way would I buy one. To me, bikes are toys. Something I beat on. The Buells I've ridden, would not hold up.
You're telling me that valve checks/adjustments on desmodromic valves every 6,000 miles is the same as every other Japanese bike? How about the valve adjustment on your SD? 10k? Even if you don't have to adjust them, it's still a days work to get there.

Crow about component quality all you want, as FreeRyde mentioned earlier, the Euro trash options are high strung race bikes. That makes them limited use without high $$ maintenance. Commuting 500 miles a week on a KTM is an expensive proposition. The same goes for a Ducati.

Like it or not, the Japanese ADV bikes offer amazing value, much more relaxed maintenance, proven reliability, and substantial versatility.

I'll add BMW as an exception, save for the outrageous showroom floor pricing.

On a purely personal note, the Japanese marques rarely garner the intolerable fanboi base that Ducati, KTM, and BMW do. As many exceptions as there may be, there are twice as many reinforcements to that rule.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:23 AM   #74
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You're telling me that valve checks/adjustments on desmodromic valves every 6,000 miles is the same as every other Japanese bike? How about the valve adjustment on your SD? 10k? Even if you don't have to adjust them, it's still a days work to get there.

Crow about component quality all you want, as FreeRyde mentioned earlier, the Euro trash options are high strung race bikes. That makes them limited use without high $$ maintenance. Commuting 500 miles a week on a KTM is an expensive proposition. The same goes for a Ducati.

Like it or not, the Japanese ADV bikes offer amazing value, much more relaxed maintenance, proven reliability, and substantial versatility.

I'll add BMW as an exception, save for the outrageous showroom floor pricing.

On a purely personal note, the Japanese marques rarely garner the intolerable fanboi base that Ducati, KTM, and BMW do. As many exceptions as there may be, there are twice as many reinforcements to that rule.
In all fairness, modern Ducatis have an advertised valve service interval of 16,000-18,000 miles. Granted, they switched from 7,500 to 18,000 from one year to the next purely for the perception of a higher reliability motorcycle. Did they discover a new magical material that withstands wear for twice as long? No... it's more about perception, marketing, and image.


Freeryde and Jalopy hit the nail on the head. We want bikes that can be flogged and relied on. Maybe they don't make peak power or have every electronic gizmo, but the HATS would check most of the boxes. Plus, I think it looks good. A bike (like any product) has to make you feel good emotionally, as much as we may or may not want to admit it.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:26 AM   #75
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. Euro brand dealers as a whole are rude as heck.
FWIW, I have had good and bad experiences at the dealerships for many brands. The thing is, with Euro brands you're going to be getting in bed with that dealer, so you better like them. That said, KTM USA customer service (not the dealer) convinced me to NEVER own a KTM.
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