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Old 11-20-2017, 03:52 PM   #31
FreeRyde
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This is not a new problem, the US has always been behind the rest of the world as far as motorcycle consumption is concerned.

We often forget here in California that a good portion of the US is frozen solid during the winter, eliminating a good portion of the potential riding population. Pair that with the fact that those folks in the frozen wasteland often do not have disposable income for something they can only enjoy for a portion of the year.

It's hard to boost sales and get new riders when most people only would ride for 2-4 months a year. Compare this to Taiwan, everyone rides, year round. I'm talking 9 years old to 90 years old, it's part of their culture and way of life. We will never have that here.

I don't care what you say about all the two-stroke riders in the 70's ripping up Redwood road. That is nothing in comparison to the asian market.
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:20 PM   #32
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quite honestly - i'm fine with a bit of exclusivity with the trade off of less choice - I may have mentioned this before but when China brands got involved in the surfing scene it became easier for a ton of people to take up surfing. Breaks were crowded to all hell with people that didn't know etiquette or what they were doing. In many cases it was dangerous, particularly on heavy days.

I got out of surfing not largely because of that reason but it was part of it - people got generally more irritable and you were less 'accepted' at breaks where you didnt frequent often (this was back east in RI - not sure about elsewhere).

I like the comradery of motorcycles and the fact that not everyone does it. I like that i can get a decent open stretch of road that is congestion free. I like going to the track and not having to maneuver through herds of riders all the time.

Add a few thousand more noobs to the scene and all of that potentially becomes a shit show.

If these companies want to succeed- maybe they should do some research here as many companies do to understand the market better instead of figuring out a one size fits all approach to europe, asia and the U.S.

The easiest thing they can do is maybe cut back on the number of variants they have for any given motorcycle - is it really necessary to have 3 versions of the H2?

Last edited by Moto Beck; 11-20-2017 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 11-20-2017, 05:07 PM   #33
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but how to do you sell the idea of riding to a generation that is scared of danger?
Make it less dangerous? Create moto only corridors along the main freeways would be just one idea. Not unlike what is happening for bicycles in SF.

Another thought is for moto manufacturers to work with moto rental companies to make renting the latest bikes for short durations cheap and easy. How many times have you had to spend months trying to get a test ride on a new model bike?
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:10 PM   #34
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These manufs all need to get back to basics, selling fun, cheap transportation to normal people. This is the ad that made Honda America a success. Normal people on a motorcycle having a nice time.
.......
Not-normal people, not really having fun, with an astronomical price of entry. What the industry needs is kids on 50cc machines, not weirdos perched on a racing machine out of its element.
The "Nice people" campaign involved my father AND step-father. Imagine (I have posted about it). We have discussed this before. The industry has been way behind the curve, but it takes vision and money to do something besides compete with the same ol' stuff against the same ol' stuff. Many of the things done in the sixties might work again, with adjustments for the times. You need to get people on little bikes for the first time, which will take creativity to get it done without insurance and regulatory nightmares. Anything is possible. Perhaps millennials might find they like rebelling on "dangerous motorbikes". Hell, they have tattoos everywhere, and that hurts more than most accidents.
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Such a good idea. A small park with its own fleet of electric mx bikes would be just awesome. There must be a way to make this happen on one of the innumerable landfills / superfund sites of the south bay.
Do a search. A nice gentleman was trying to get San Jose land designated as a motorbike park. Bump the thread. He had some good ideas.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:11 PM   #35
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A brand new iPhone8 with an Unlimited plan at Verizon is $100/mo.

$5,000 at 4.5% for 60 months is ~$100/mo. But that doesn't include gas/maintenance/insurance.

A CB500F is $6100 list + tax/title/prep. Then toss in another $500-1000 for gear.

As much fun as I find motorcycles, my first two were not purchased for fun. They were sole transportation. My 180 Scooter was a perfectly capable, short range urban commuter in So Cal back when the freeways were 55. it would top out at around 70ish, so it was mostly able to keep up and stay out of the way on the freeway. But, honestly, I didn't run it much there -- favoring surface streets. Knowing how much safer the freeway is than surface streets, in hindsight that was not necessarily a good idea.

But with todays freeway speeds, I do not consider the 180 safe.

When I got a new job that took my commute deep in the heart of LA, I traded in the scoot for a 600 UJM. Something a little more substantial for the longer freeway rides, something a little more responsive. It had 56HP, comparable to the CB500s today. More than adequate.

That bike was never a "fun bike", it was just transportation. I rode it to get places. Honestly, save for 1 trip up the coast to SB, where in fact I just wanted to go to SB, I never rode it just to ride it. Never got up on the weekend, took it out, rode out to nowhere, and came back. No "quick runs through the canyons" (which I lived at the base of) or anything.

Why was that? It never occurred to me, frankly. I wasn't an "enthusiast", I wasn't a "motorcyclist", I wasn't anything. I was me. It wasn't a lifestyle, it was a tool. Me here, friends there, bike gets me to friends.

I didn't start doing any of that really until I got my third bike. A bike I picked after reading magazines. Magazines that were telling all these stories of what people did and such.

I got my 2nd bike because it was a practical bike, cost $1995 on the floor sticker. I put 1/2 down and got a delightful 18% loan on the other half.

Still cheaper than a car.

After I got the second bike, I worked on trading in my ski gloves, ski goggles, $29, ill-fitting KMart White helmet (that saved me -- twice), and whatever random overjacket I was wearing at the time to keep me warm.

Bike gloves, boots, synthetic jacket with leather patches, SHOEI helmet.

On my 3rd bike, I took an MSF course.

"Don't do what I do."

What I never bought, was a lifestyle. An identity.

I know that's what they sell, or try to, I think. I don't even know nowadays.

But I think it would behoove them to sell motorcycles and scooters. To sell on the practical nature of them. Don't downplay the danger, they're certainly dangerous, but if you get licensed, get some training, and don't drink, and, heck, SLOW DOWN (these are not insurmountable requirements) the numbers swing wildly.

In recent numbers (quick google), showed California had ~12,000 injuries, 480 deaths. Not to downplay the numbers, every "Uncle Fred" story is a tragedy. Left turn take outs are the worst of the worst. But it's not the Spanish Flu either. But those numbers are over countless population and millions of miles ridden. Riders alone are responsible for what happens to them much of the time. That suggests that they don't have to do that.

I wonder how many accidents are on scooters (I'll note, that I had 3 myself -- yay first year riding in the wild) and 300's or 500s.

Motorcycles are practical and economical. They have tangible benefits in terms of moving people efficiently. It would be nice for the industry to work on that angle.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:41 PM   #36
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What exactly was the secret?
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:10 AM   #37
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This. The vast majority of Generation Veal is physically and mentally unfit for riding or any other demanding or dangerous activity.
Can we kill this myth, almost every adventure sport is booming. Honestly, among my friends a lot don't ride motorcycles because sitting on a bike getting no excersize is pretty lame compared to rock climbing, snowboarding, paragliding, surfing or mountain biking.

Moto riding on the street isn't really that hard and requires zero physical fitness, so as much as we all like to feel like tough guys for riding it's really not the case.

Even alpinism and ice climbing are growing, two sports that are way gnarlier than anything you can do on a moto.

It's not that riding is too scary or hard for a lot of young people, it's that it is too easy and boring.

Last edited by bpw; 11-21-2017 at 03:13 AM..
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:58 AM   #38
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The reluctant demographic sees a motorcycle as complicated, expensive and dangerous.

The cabal is blind and numb to the culture they would desire to sell into.

No more plastic cladding, no more thousand dollar tip-overs, DIY simple maintenance, robust and reliable drive train and the sales will be made despite the clumsy advertising and toy store styling.

But what do I know?
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:32 AM   #39
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Urban electric dirtbikes could be a powerful tool to introduce folks to the fun.
Dean has been working on that for years
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/fo...d.php?t=503767
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:11 AM   #40
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Further development of “clean” two stroke technology and use it to produce cheap entry level machines. Build some 4 cylinder 500’s for the rest of us.
I like the cut of your jib.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:56 AM   #41
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Judging by my coworkers, Scoot is great gateway drug for motorcycles.
+1!

... no special DMV endorsement
required to rent a Scoot ...

... we slit our own wrists buying into
the DMV MC endorsement and special
training classes for new young riders ...

... to the ice and snow point, I knew an
old timer in New Hampshire who just
quit riding when that state went to a separate
motorcycle license ... ol’ yankee said
it was bs and just another state money grab ...
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:55 AM   #42
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Can we kill this myth, almost every adventure sport is booming. Honestly, among my friends a lot don't ride motorcycles because sitting on a bike getting no excersize is pretty lame compared to rock climbing, snowboarding, paragliding, surfing or mountain biking.

Moto riding on the street isn't really that hard and requires zero physical fitness, so as much as we all like to feel like tough guys for riding it's really not the case.

Even alpinism and ice climbing are growing, two sports that are way gnarlier than anything you can do on a moto.

It's not that riding is too scary or hard for a lot of young people, it's that it is too easy and boring.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

Look at mortality rate for these other sports. How many people do you know that have died mountain biking or snowboarding.... We have a whole section on this forum dedicated to riders who have passed away. How many snowboard forums have this?


Coming from a "young" person, everyone I have spoken with who doesn't ride cites the danger/being scared as the reason why. I have never heard anyone say that it would be boring or too easy.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:02 AM   #43
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http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...117-story.html

Hey Budman,

It just might be a really good time to bring the "industry" onboard for a proper M2, and adjustments to the CMSP that we've been talking about recently.
What special bikes to minorities need?
What a useless buzzword.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:04 AM   #44
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Meet me at my house. We will also get Jess to come. Just don't tell anyone. I'll bring the hot dogs.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:31 AM   #45
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It's not that riding is too scary or hard for a lot of young people, it's that it is too easy and boring.
ok

And the % of Millenials (or any generation) who participates in the sports you mention is pretty small.
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