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Old 11-21-2017, 11:47 AM   #46
Adler / Gawernator
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Originally Posted by jwb View Post
These manufs all need to get back to basics, selling fun, cheap transportation to normal people. This is the ad that made Honda America a success. Normal people on a motorcycle having a nice time.



This is current Kawi advertising:



Not-normal people, not really having fun, with an astronomical price of entry. What the industry needs is kids on 50cc machines, not weirdos perched on a racing machine out of its element.
The people in the first pic would also be eaten alive today for being the opposite of ATGATT

With rent being over $2,000 for just a single bedroom in much of the Bay Area, no wonder sales are down. Lol, people can’t even afford to live.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:08 PM   #47
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Cell plus Cable adds up to a very nice bike payment.
Mine combined are more than a decent car payment
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:25 PM   #48
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The people in the first pic would also be eaten alive today for being the opposite of ATGATT
There is a middle ground between Archie and Neo.

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Old 11-21-2017, 12:30 PM   #49
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Seriously, can this guy be any cooler?
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:36 PM   #50
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What special bikes to minorities need?
What a useless buzzword.
This comment caught my eye, because I think there are huge swaths of market segments that aren't adequately addressed by the industry. It's not about making special bikes for women or minorities, it's about effectively marketing to us/them.

It seems silly, but something as simple as seat height can be a barrier to ride for some women. Add to that a catalog/website/dealership posters that only feature men riding and you have the perfect storm of low-grade intimidation. That said, I've seen Harley do some super effective marketing with events like "Ladies' Bike Night! Learn to pick up your hog!" ( , I know). And Triumph (specificially, the Bonneville lines) has been kind of amazing at marketing to women with underground efforts -- e.g., Babes Ride Out events -- and more mainstream marketing with women riders in their pictures. It helps that both bikes tend to be lower to the ground, but I don't see a lot of marketing like that coming from the taller adventure bike classes (which I think have way more yay factor, if you ask me).

EDIT: Buuuut, before I forget, Goldwing just put out one of the best moto ads I've ever seen. I'll post up once I find the vid.

EDIT-EDIT:

youtu.be/w1sdm2k3vMw
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Last edited by budman; 11-22-2017 at 08:59 AM.. Reason: FIXED Youtube vid
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:46 PM   #51
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This comment caught my eye, because I think there are huge swaths of market segments that aren't adequately addressed by the industry. It's not about making special bikes for women or minorities, it's about effectively marketing to us/them.

It seems silly, but something as simple as seat height can be a barrier to ride for some women. Add to that a catalog/website/dealership posters that only feature men riding and you have the perfect storm of low-grade intimidation. That said, I've seen Harley do some super effective marketing with events like "Ladies' Bike Night! Learn to pick up your hog!" ( , I know). And Triumph (specificially, the Bonneville lines) has been kind of amazing at marketing to women with underground efforts -- e.g., Babes Ride Out events -- and more mainstream marketing with women riders in their pictures. It helps that both bikes tend to be lower to the ground, but I don't see a lot of marketing like that coming from the taller adventure bike classes (which I think have way more yay factor, if you ask me).

EDIT: Buuuut, before I forget, Goldwing just put out one of the best moto ads I've ever seen. I'll post up once I find the vid.
There’s no doubt the industry should have more options that better suit more woman riders. Generally seat height is the most important functionally, but style should also be addressed. The minority statement is just dumb imo.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:15 PM   #52
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easy, LOWER THE FUCKING PRICES AIRHEADS.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:30 PM   #53
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easy, LOWER THE FUCKING PRICES AIRHEADS.
Yeah, why don't they just lower prices and get some of that sweet venture capital funding to prop up their failing business model? Duh.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:32 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
There’s no doubt the industry should have more options that better suit more woman riders. Generally seat height is the most important functionally, but style should also be addressed. The minority statement is just dumb imo.
only problem is the industry thinks marketing bikes to women means plastering pink floral print all over the bikes and their gear.

now, i wonder if there arent many women riders as men because of marketing or are men just more prone to risky behaviors? i would guess that the latter is more true than the former, but that still doesnt mean women shouldn't have choices when buying a bike/gear.

I didnt read this entire thread, and i dont know if its already been said, but the helicopter mommy that has nerfed every aspect of the lives of their children is whats to blame on the declining motorcycle market. plain and simple. we have prioritized safety over the pursuit of pleasure and our hobby has been deemed too risky by many of the younger people just coming into maturity.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:46 PM   #55
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It's hard for me to comprehend but I have numerous friends who kids have no ambition to get a license to drive a car much less a motorcycle. The ski industry is have similar issues attracting younger people to the slopes and a cousin was telling me golf is experiencing similar issues. I don't have any answers for this besides it must be easier and cheaper for parents to put kids in-front of the tv, video games or phones. At this point I don't have a clue how to change it. It's just my observation and I could be off base since I do not have kids but it just seems wrong to be willing to give up your independence to Uber.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
What special bikes to minorities need?
What a useless buzzword.
Are you referring to M2? The M2 monicker is the descriptor for the type of motorcycle license. There use to be only the M, but that was divided up such that the M1 covers all bikes, and the M2 would cover all bikes up to freeway legal. This was messed up due to someone being lazy, and currently the M2 only covers actual mopeds/low powered eScooters (not ICE scooters).

Restoring the M2 to it's intended stature, and making an adjustment to the CMSP would do wonders for both the industry, and the riders. It would sell more bikes, and it would give new riders more time to develop their skill sets—especially their mental awareness skills which can't really be developed over the course of two days in a parking lot.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:58 PM   #57
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It seems silly, but something as simple as seat height can be a barrier to ride for some women.

EDIT: Buuuut, before I forget, Goldwing just put out one of the best moto ads I've ever seen. I'll post up once I find the vid.

EDIT-EDIT:
v=w1sdm2k3vMw
If you remove the v= from your video id then it should show properly.

Seat height shouldn't be an issue for anyone. Most dirt bikes have the seat so far placed into the sky that most riders use a step to get on them. Street bikes have significantly lower seat heights. You really don't need to be able to put both feet on the ground at the same time. Hell you don't actually need to be able to put any feet on the ground.


youtu.be/Bwjpc8I-0kw
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:33 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by ToraTora View Post
If you remove the v= from your video id then it should show properly.

Seat height shouldn't be an issue for anyone. Most dirt bikes have the seat so far placed into the sky that most riders use a step to get on them. Street bikes have significantly lower seat heights. You really don't need to be able to put both feet on the ground at the same time. Hell you don't actually need to be able to put any feet on the ground.


youtu.be/Bwjpc8I-0kw
Thanks for the edit. I was do excited to have found the video I forgot my posting skills.

FWIW, yes, seat height shouldn't be an issue. But it can feel significant to a newbie or some just sitting on a bike for the first time to see if it's something he/she might want to try. Especially if that someone doesn't know if anyone else who rides and can show/explain that it's really not a big deal if you can't flatfoot a bike. So what harm would it do the manufacturers to advertise with shorter female riders demonstrating they can ride without needing to flatfoot? I can only see upsides.

And, yeah, the "make it pink and women'll buy it" approach goes waaaaay deeper than the moto industry. I happen to like pink, so there's that, but I also like red and blue and green....
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by kelsodeez View Post
only problem is the industry thinks marketing bikes to women means plastering pink floral print all over the bikes and their gear.

now, i wonder if there arent many women riders as men because of marketing or are men just more prone to risky behaviors? i would guess that the latter is more true than the former, but that still doesnt mean women shouldn't have choices when buying a bike/gear.

I didnt read this entire thread, and i dont know if its already been said, but the helicopter mommy that has nerfed every aspect of the lives of their children is whats to blame on the declining motorcycle market. plain and simple. we have prioritized safety over the pursuit of pleasure and our hobby has been deemed too risky by many of the younger people just coming into maturity.
That should be pretty obvious, it’s not marketing
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:22 AM   #60
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Especially if that someone doesn't know if anyone else who rides and can show/explain that it's really not a big deal if you can't flatfoot a bike.
Happy to help with the syntax.

Yeah I can't understand anyone getting into riding without friends to help them along the way—and that goes for longer than being a noob. I think friendship is one of the best parts of being a rider.
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