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Old 12-05-2017, 03:51 PM   #46
jt2
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BMW GS: Check
Clearwater lights: Check

TIL that I'm an asshole.

(I take that back. I've known it for years.)
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:07 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Rumbo Sur View Post
Sorry, but I don't really know what else to call the BMW Bright Light Brigade.
Are you saying they don't exist? Wasted Bandwidth? Uh Huh, sure.

I know of no other brand where riders have such a penchant for Big Bright Lights. Do you? Some over load their BMW's with Aux lights adding colors, modulators and more HOo Haw... which distract riders and PISS off motorists.

So ... to me, it's kind of serious, life/death stuff ... and not a Hate Rant.
It just IS!

For years I went to MOA rallies ... so YES .. I know the culture well. And certainly not all are Dick Heads ... but unfortunately, enough ARE that it gets them noticed and labeled as such.

I ride with an elite group of riders, many who are current or former GS riders. 10 or a dozen on BMW's. None in our group run obnoxious lighting ... and if they did they'd hear about it pronto from the non BMW riding plebeians with candles for headlights.
You bet I have really fucking bright LEDs on my bike. I ride at night, in deer and cow country to boot. They've saved my bacon from a bovine t-bone more than once, and do a nice job picking out the forest rats too. That's what they're for.

I'll agree that it's irresponsible to run them when there is anyone in front of me, at any distance and any percentage of illumination, and you'll never see that from me.

But to just blanketly spout douchebaggery at GS owners, well that's just silly. You should go for a ride with me a night- we can ride all Ponch-and-John so you can see why, yes, they are useful. I bet you'd even buy a set after that. I know where to get the good, less expensive stuff.

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Originally Posted by jwb View Post
There's some math behind this, i can't draw worth a damn but I can try to describe it with words. The problem with a circular beam is half of the light goes up into space. So right away, throw out half of the claimed output. Now imagine a conical beam intersecting the ground. Imagine the center of the beam is just below level (i.e. the way you would normally try to aim a headlight against a wall, a few inches down at 25 feet). The center of the beam goes way off into the distance, say 600 feet down the road, but the edge of the cone intersects the ground much closer. On account of how the beam is equally illuminated across its arc, virtually all of the light will fall in the first few feet of the beam, and the rest of it will be hardly illuminated at all. Almost no light will be reaching the area in the center of the beam.

A proper light with a shaped beam isn't equally illuminated, instead the optics put 99% of the light in the very top degree of the beam. If you shine it directly on a wall, it is very bright at the top and much less bright below. Why? Because that tiny part of the arc is what is illuminate almost all of the area down the road. Another benefit of this scheme is it puts relatively little light on the ground right in front of you, which is good because that would blind the rider.

So yeah it's very easy for the expensive flashlight guys to put huge numbers on their sales literature. It's a little harder to build a light that evenly illuminates the road ahead. You have to do like math and stuff.

FYI I ride Mines in the dark frequently. I don't think your review mentioned it but the CRF250L Rally has a really killed OEM light. Very effective.
And herein lies the rub. A light with a horizon or horizontal cut off is not any better than a really bright headlight, even when all the lumens are pointed properly. Allow me to explain.

Riding at night in cow and deer country requires a good deal of peripheral light. Provided by a conical shaped light. It also requires that the light, when leaned over in a corner shine in the 1 and 2 o'clock and 10 and 11 o'clock range to properly light the roadway. This is evidenced by several manufacturers coming up with novel ways to eliminate the issue. BMW with the weird moving light and KTM with the different LEDs illuminating depending on lean angle. A round beam solves this. Also, when riding in rapidly undulating terrain, like say, Highway 120 you'll need light at the 12 o'clock position to illuminate the road while the motorcycle is pointed down the decline and the road flattens out.

So, for $530 I can have 1600 lumens on the road in front of me, providing a "brighter headlight" or for $250 (including harness and switch) I can have 7200 (2 lights- 3600 each) lumens spread across all the terrain I need to see at any given point of my ride. Or, that's 3600 lumens in the same area that a bike light might give me and another 3600 in reserve for the corners and hills, light where I need it and when I need it.

So while I personally appreciate the idea behind a light designed to put the lumens to the ground, it's not what most of us LED adding GS-riding assholes are looking for. We actually ARE looking to spread the light out in a cone-shape manner. Well, I am at least.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:14 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by MLCOakland View Post
I saw a different BMW GS rider yesterday about 5:45 pm on EB24 in Oakland who honked, and then gesticulated wildly and flipped off a truck that wouldn't move over in lane 1 for the rider to split past. I was several lanes over, so I couldn't see exactly what was going on, but it didn't seem like the truck was doing anything other than staying in its lane. Either way, it would have been better to wait until safe to split past rather than make all that commotion. There were 2 riders behind that BMW who seemed to split past without incident.

Greg
Oh lordy. I think that might have been me... Hopefully not (I *think* I was passing through later than 5:45 yesterday), but I've definitely been known to gesticulate wildly and flip off drivers on 24. And that's definitely attributable to being a former New Yorker not to being a BMW rider.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:16 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jt2 View Post
BMW GS: Check
Clearwater lights: Check

TIL that I'm an asshole.

(I take that back. I've known it for years.)
I must be a better asshole than you because I've learned I fall into just about EVERY hated category here.

In all fairness it's not a reflection of all BARF folks. The guys I've actually met are damned cool. Can't recall ever standing around hating on one another face to face.

... And now back to your regularly scheduled thread programming. Well, it's actually rerun season, so enjoy reading it again... and again... and aga... you get the picture.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:25 PM   #50
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BMW -
Clearwaters -
Like Cheap Trick -
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt2 View Post
BMW GS: Check
Clearwater lights: Check

TIL that I'm an asshole.

(I take that back. I've known it for years.)
So I just want to clarify something. Are you guys both really saying that you run blinding illegal auxiliary lights and don't care what effect it has on your safety or the others around you? That has to be the most self-centered thing I've seen in a long time. I mean, i get having the lights. I get using them on secluded roads. I don't get using them while lane splitting, especially behind another rider. You are literally creating a major safety concern for him (and yourself) and you don't care in the slightest? Wow.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:32 PM   #51
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Where did I say that

a) They're blinding (i.e., I run them undimmed)

or

b) I don't care what effect they have?
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:36 PM   #52
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This thread has lost its fun.





Here's what my kids see when I leave for work in the morning:



Hey look! It's a bunch of BMW riders!

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Old 12-05-2017, 04:36 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Brokenlink View Post
So I just want to clarify something. Are you guys both really saying that you run blinding illegal auxiliary lights and don't care what effect it has on your safety or the others around you? That has to be the most self-centered thing I've seen in a long time. I mean, i get having the lights. I get using them on secluded roads. I don't get using them while lane splitting, especially behind another rider. You are literally creating a major safety concern for him (and yourself) and you don't care in the slightest? Wow.
If that's what you believe I said go ahead and run with that bone. If ya can't find something to hate on then just make it up. Great way to have a great day!
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:37 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by jt2 View Post
Where did I say that

a) They're blinding (i.e., I run them undimmed)

or

b) I don't care what effect they have?
It was pretty well implied when you said "Clearwater light?" Check and TIL I'm an asshole, which infers that you run them the way the guy describes. If that's not the case, then why make the statement?

Again, I was just asking for clarificaiton because ut truly baffles me that someone who has been on BARF as long as both of you would reply in this fashion and honestly not care.

If that's not the case, then good. My faith is restored. If that is the case, then I am completely baffled and quite frankly a bit disgusted.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:41 PM   #55
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If that's what you believe I said go ahead and run with that bone. If ya can't find something to hate on then just make it up. Great way to have a great day!
Make up? WTF are you talking about? I asked for clarification on your statement, whereupon you pretty much came out and said, no actually fucking said :
" BMW -
Clearwaters -
Like Cheap Trick - "

I'm not assuming anything here. I was literally asking you to clarify if that is what you were saying or implying or not. Your response to meappeared as if you were saying you run insanely bright lights. I was asking if that was true or not. I wasn't arguing against you or assuming anything. Hence the term "Can you clarify........"
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:03 PM   #56
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This thread has lost its fun.





Here's what my kids see when I leave for work in the morning:



Hey look! It's a bunch of BMW riders!



uhh... I mean;
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:08 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by boney View Post
This thread has lost its fun.
I'm still enjoying it.

FWIW - I have little doubt the offender is on here, but is unwilling to post up, but you never know...maybe I've shamed them into better behavior? Doubtful. I figured this thread would be the equivalent of an Ernie Anastos bit (NYC reference for you guys that aren't familiar with his "work"), but I had to do it in hopes it would alert people to this behavior and how it affects other riders.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:32 PM   #58
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I had to do it in hopes it would alert people to this behavior and how it affects other riders.
Well aren't you a righteous peach? Thanks for saving us from our own stupidity, sir.

You know there are tons and tons of riders that aren't on BARF, right? Or do you just assume all the shitty-behaving ones are?

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Old 12-05-2017, 10:23 PM   #59
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I have Clearwaters (a Sevina and an Erica) on my bike. I take great care to make sure they're pointed in a direction that doesn't make enemies, and I run them at 10% on the street. I've never had a car driver bitch at me or try to run me over as a result of my lights, and your description of such lights as the equivalent of open pipes is objectively silly. Thoughtfully placed lights help with conspicuity, no matter how you rail against particular brands, for whatever reason.
Most people will just go about their day (or night) doesn't mean you haven't done something that pisses them off.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:24 PM   #60
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Most people will just go about their day (or night) doesn't mean you haven't done something that pisses them off.
No shit.

However, the contention in this thread is that auxiliary lights lead to road rage, pestilence, famine.

And also, it's pretty easy to tell when someone's frustrated on the road, even if they don't try to run you down. Trite counterpoints like, "Most people will just go about their day (or night) doesn't mean you haven't done something that pisses them off." is hardly evidence that I have done something wrong. It's possibly to be objectively aware of one's effects on surrounding people, you know.
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