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Old 03-14-2018, 09:31 AM   #31
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Lolz. People with serious disposable income worried they may have to reach deeper in their pockets to go play on the weekend. The times we live. Seriously.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:46 AM   #32
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While I agree this lawsuit is bullshit, setting up a crowdsourcing page asking for donations seems slimy. As others have pointed out, there clearly isn't a lack of funding available on behalf of Keigwins. Asking to spread the word? Show up in support of them on court/hearing days? Sure. But passing the collection plate around, asking to share the burden while owner drives around in his branded Ferrari is wrong.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:49 AM   #33
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Man, I wish someone would pay my legal bills...
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:57 AM   #34
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This doesn't strike me as a serious attempt to raise all the money to fight the lawsuit as much as it is an attempt to show the insurance company that there is support for continuing the fight. 50K is a drop in the bucket for this type of litigation. Why would I say this? When I got divorced in '99 5K didn't last 2 seconds. And that was when the sharks only charged $250 an hour.

Need I remind everyone that Sonoma permanently changed for motorcyclists in '85 when Wes Cooley Jr. sued Sears Point? These suits need to be fought to the bitter end. Hopefully Kim will be forced to pay Keigwins attorneys fees in the end and this will go to charity.

Edit: Maybe the firs post should be made a standalone temporary "Sticky" so it reverts back to the PSA it was intended as. The posts can all be moved to the other thread.

Last edited by wfo439; 03-14-2018 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:22 AM   #35
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Jealousy is a scary thing.
You got me fucked up if youre implying Im jealous by what I wrote. Now the dipshit that is suing, Im sure he saw money signs.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:53 AM   #36
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I believe good intentions gave birth to this thread. I applaud that. Good arguments pro and con too. I'm inclined to let Keigwins fight the good fight on their own. They seem to have resources and assets that I don't.

Assuming for a moment that allegations that Keigwins undercut the competition to corner the market, did that include hiring fewer safety personnel? I don't know. Also, if they discovered something unsafe, would the track have corrected it immediately? Again, I don't know.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:12 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by wfo439 View Post
This doesn't strike me as a serious attempt to raise all the money to fight the lawsuit as much as it is an attempt to show the insurance company that there is support for continuing the fight. 50K is a drop in the bucket for this type of litigation. Why would I say this? When I got divorced in '99 5K didn't last 2 seconds. And that was when the sharks only charged $250 an hour.

Need I remind everyone that Sonoma permanently changed for motorcyclists in '85 when Wes Cooley Jr. sued Sears Point? These suits need to be fought to the bitter end. Hopefully Kim will be forced to pay Keigwins attorneys fees in the end and this will go to charity.

Edit: Maybe the firs post should be made a standalone temporary "Sticky" so it reverts back to the PSA it was intended as. The posts can all be moved to the other thread.
Yup, thanks. I know how much and this won't touch it. It's as much a show of force and solidarity as anything.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:15 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by 295566 View Post
While I agree this lawsuit is bullshit, setting up a crowdsourcing page asking for donations seems slimy. As others have pointed out, there clearly isn't a lack of funding available on behalf of Keigwins. Asking to spread the word? Show up in support of them on court/hearing days? Sure. But passing the collection plate around, asking to share the burden while owner drives around in his branded Ferrari is wrong.
Others have pointed out bullshit.The owner sold his Ferrari long ago. This won't pay the bills or more than a fraction of them. It's a show of solidarity and support.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:31 AM   #39
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:40 PM   #40
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[QUOTE=afm199;10045468 It's a show of solidarity and support.[/QUOTE]

Nothing against you AFM199, but I just checked and Keigwins isn't even a sponsor on BARF. So why are we having this discussion about support?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:42 PM   #41
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Nothing against you AFM199, but I just checked and Keigwins isn't even a sponsor on BARF. So why are we having this discussion about support?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Some people think money only flows in one direction.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:00 PM   #42
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I've never been to a track day but I see them as important for discovering and developing rider talent in the US. We need to make sure they're reasonably priced and available for as long as we can.

Good luck and keep your head up Keigwins.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:02 PM   #43
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Nothing against you AFM199, but I just checked and Keigwins isn't even a sponsor on BARF. So why are we having this discussion about support?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I checked with Budman before I posted this. It affects everyone in the industry.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:25 PM   #44
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Nothing against you AFM199, but I just checked and Keigwins isn't even a sponsor on BARF. So why are we having this discussion about support?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I have been watching this and feel like I should step in.

1. First... Keigwin's is a member of the Bay Area Motorcycle Community and BARF does not restrict discussion to sponsors only.

2. I assume Keigwin's stands on its own as a corporation and assuming just because the owner has some money and should pay for his own stuff in this case is a kin to saying "Budman owns a house and could afford to fight a lawsuit filed against BARF so he should do it". I do, but I doubt I would want to start paying out attorney fees out of my own pocket to make that happen.
I likely would, but BARF has very little funding on its own. The cupboard is bare when it comes to a bank account that could be used for that. I am not sure I would start a fundraising effort to do so, but it might be possible I do know Mrs. Budman would be 100% against dumping our assets into something like that.

The cat calls on his ethic in this is kind of crappy. This company provides a service to a lot of riders and if they want to help fight the lawsuit it is their choice and showing support to a company that provides a quality service is noteworthy in my book.

3. In my mind this lawsuit affects way more than Keigwin. It could have ramifications for other TD companies and of course all of you that choose to ride the track. If fees suddenly doubled or tripled because of the acceptance of the liability, the established precedent of an insurance company and TD company having to pay out when a rider crashes could have lasting impact on our sport.

4. The OP and original poster about the owners financial status should not have actually happened. Both have been told to ignore each other in the past.

I am glad to see Keigwin's fighting this. I think it is important for the reasons above.

As a rider you know you can get hurt. When I slammed the tire wall (gone now) at Sears Point between T1 and the drag strip after hitting oil which caused a 120 MPH plus get off, I never even gave suing someone a second thought. Hell first thought.

I signed the waiver.. I knew the risk. I accepted the total loss of a bike and the injuries as a result of MY DECISION to ride the track. I am sorry the dude got hurt, but if he was at home and on the couch playing video games he would be fine.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:03 PM   #45
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I've done a few Keigwins days and enjoyed their program enough to know they should stay in business.
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