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Old 12-19-2018, 10:59 PM   #31
Burg-Mann
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What year bikes are affected by this law?
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:21 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Roadstergal View Post
Well, it's the loud ones who are ruining it for the rest of us. I used to like pipes, but we're well into the kindergarten effect. Not anymore.

This bill would certainly make me sleep easier - literally. It would be easier to sleep and show up, functional, for my day job without having bikes with shitty loud exhausts barreling endlessly up and down Hillside.

ETA: Bikes and trucks and I-4 cars, lordy.
This. We've tried the "police ourselves" angle and have discovered that we can't. Now we get the "we will police you" angle.

I'm all for putting a pipe on your bike that is good for performance or whatever. But as most engineers can attest, an increase in performance does not equate to, or even require an increase in noise. Sure, nice pipes sound nice. But nice pipes that sound nice still don't have to be loud.

There is no tyranny in this topic. Most people don't like loud pipes on cars/trucks/motorcycles and they are exercising their democratic rights to elect people who will appoint people who will make rules to make us stop putting loud pipes on our cars/trucks/motorcycles. That's how democracy works. Feel free to organize opposition to these people, legislators, appointees and rules and get them changed. That is also how democracy works. Don't like it? Do something about it. (after all, that's what the anti-loud-pipes people are doing)

The time to have handled all this was about 5 years ago when they were trying to smog checks our bikes (to force us to have stock exhausts- duh!) and instead settled for this rule we have now.

Don't like this rule? Put a quieter pipe on your bike and encourage your friends to as well, then this rule won't even matter to you.
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:57 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by boney View Post
I'm all for putting a pipe on your bike that is good for performance or whatever. But as most engineers can attest, an increase in performance does not equate to, or even require an increase in noise. Sure, nice pipes sound nice. But nice pipes that sound nice still don't have to be loud.
Quiet pipes aren't going to be as light weight and they're going to be big. You need volume to cut noise without increasing back pressure. It's not hard to save 20 pounds when swapping out some of the current mufflers.

I'm not advocating more noise and my KTM will definitely keep the big stock muffler, but there are other factors to consider than what you've listed.
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:12 AM   #34
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3db is a doubling of volume, not 10db. Which makes what you said worse...
10dB is the human's perception of doubling.
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:43 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ScottRNelson View Post
Quiet pipes aren't going to be as light weight and they're going to be big. You need volume to cut noise without increasing back pressure. It's not hard to save 20 pounds when swapping out some of the current mufflers.

I'm not advocating more noise and my KTM will definitely keep the big stock muffler, but there are other factors to consider than what you've listed.
the weight is largely due to cats
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:43 AM   #36
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Lol at the fart can i4 hate.

Up here I swear they must give every kid a fart can when they get their learner's permit. And they all drive H4s (subies)
Sitting in the pizzaria across from the HS at 3pm is hilarious as they all leave in a parade of farts
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:49 AM   #37
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3db is a doubling of volume, not 10db. Which makes what you said worse...
3dB is doubling the power.

Did someone mention the street legal dB value?
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:51 AM   #38
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I wonder how the discussion is going, on American V twin forums. . . .
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:56 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by boney View Post
This. We've tried the "police ourselves" angle and have discovered that we can't. Now we get the "we will police you" angle.

I'm all for putting a pipe on your bike that is good for performance or whatever. But as most engineers can attest, an increase in performance does not equate to, or even require an increase in noise. Sure, nice pipes sound nice. But nice pipes that sound nice still don't have to be loud.

There is no tyranny in this topic. Most people don't like loud pipes on cars/trucks/motorcycles and they are exercising their democratic rights to elect people who will appoint people who will make rules to make us stop putting loud pipes on our cars/trucks/motorcycles. That's how democracy works. Feel free to organize opposition to these people, legislators, appointees and rules and get them changed. That is also how democracy works. Don't like it? Do something about it. (after all, that's what the anti-loud-pipes people are doing)

The time to have handled all this was about 5 years ago when they were trying to smog checks our bikes (to force us to have stock exhausts- duh!) and instead settled for this rule we have now.

Don't like this rule? Put a quieter pipe on your bike and encourage your friends to as well, then this rule won't even matter to you.
A most excellent and thoughtful post.

Despite all the overwrought crying about tyranny from some, motorcycles are still far behind cars in what's regulated. Anyone who thinks that'll last forever is sleeping while standing up, especially since a big chunk of us make ourselves so damn noticeable with stupid-loud pipes.

It seems to me that manufacturers have been paying more attention to sound quality, likely due to the fact that simply swapping pipes is going to be harder to do. At CityBike, we've casually observed improvements in stock exhaust sounds, and with their Z900RS, Kawasaki did what car makers have been doing for decades with performance cars and specifically "engineered" the exhaust note. It sounds killer.

And now, smart companies like Yoshimura are making fully-legal, CA-compliant exhausts that sound and look good, and in some cases materially improve performance.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:08 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by boney View Post
This. We've tried the "police ourselves" angle and have discovered that we can't. Now we get the "we will police you" angle.

I'm all for putting a pipe on your bike that is good for performance or whatever. But as most engineers can attest, an increase in performance does not equate to, or even require an increase in noise. Sure, nice pipes sound nice. But nice pipes that sound nice still don't have to be loud.

There is no tyranny in this topic. Most people don't like loud pipes on cars/trucks/motorcycles and they are exercising their democratic rights to elect people who will appoint people who will make rules to make us stop putting loud pipes on our cars/trucks/motorcycles. That's how democracy works. Feel free to organize opposition to these people, legislators, appointees and rules and get them changed. That is also how democracy works. Don't like it? Do something about it. (after all, that's what the anti-loud-pipes people are doing)

The time to have handled all this was about 5 years ago when they were trying to smog checks our bikes (to force us to have stock exhausts- duh!) and instead settled for this rule we have now.

Don't like this rule? Put a quieter pipe on your bike and encourage your friends to as well, then this rule won't even matter to you.
So basically, if something annoys you, but really does no real harm to anyone, it needs to be made illegal?

So, if enough people are annoyed by lane splitting, you would have no problem people voting to make it illegal? Just because it annoys them.

Loud pipes does no harm, just annoying at times, but thatís life......people doing annoying things.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:17 AM   #41
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Idiots with open pipes wake me and my kids up pretty much nightly. This new law is the bare minimum that can be done.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:22 AM   #42
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the weight is largely due to cats
Ducati Monster mufflers from 1997. No catalytic converters back then. The stock pipes weighed 16 pounds. The Ducati Performance carbon fiber mufflers were less than half of that weight. Significantly lighter, but significantly louder too. I finally settled on lightly modified stock mufflers (in the middle) to let the Ducati sound out, but not nearly as loud.

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Old 12-20-2018, 10:25 AM   #43
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So basically, if something annoys you, but really does no real harm to anyone, it needs to be made illegal?

So, if enough people are annoyed by lane splitting, you would have no problem people voting to make it illegal? Just because it annoys them.

Loud pipes does no harm, just annoying at times, but thatís life......people doing annoying things.
Vehicle emissions affect everyone. CO2, NOx, sound. All of these things have real impacts on quality of life and even affect the expected lifespan of people who live near highways. It's not just "annoying." There are already laws in place to regulate allowable emissions for roadgoing vehicles, this is just providing more ability for them to be enforced.

People who intentionally make their roadgoing vehicles louder and/or more polluting can fuck off. If you want a bike with loud pipes with no cats, great, you can ride it at Thunderhill. Otherwise, stick with stock or a CARB-approved aftermarket option.
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Old 12-20-2018, 12:17 PM   #44
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I wonder how the discussion is going, on American V twin forums. . . .
Probably like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LlA0_Hv3CQ

youtu.be/9LlA0_Hv3CQ

Last edited by Abacinator; 12-20-2018 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 12-20-2018, 12:53 PM   #45
Junkie
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Vehicle emissions affect everyone. CO2, NOx, sound. All of these things have real impacts on quality of life and even affect the expected lifespan of people who live near highways. It's not just "annoying." There are already laws in place to regulate allowable emissions for roadgoing vehicles, this is just providing more ability for them to be enforced.

People who intentionally make their roadgoing vehicles louder and/or more polluting can fuck off. If you want a bike with loud pipes with no cats, great, you can ride it at Thunderhill. Otherwise, stick with stock or a CARB-approved aftermarket option.
what pipes have any impact on CO2 emissions?
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