BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Community > Kitchen Sink


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-11-2019, 08:51 AM   #16
UDRider
FLCL?
 
UDRider's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: .
Motorcycles: The lulz machine.
Name:
Quote:
Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
China and Indonesia are grounding all 737 Max 8. Interesting that supposedly safety neglectful third world nations are stepping up and the US is doing nothing.
Maye US knows something they don't?
__________________
Going fast on a motorcycle is easy, making turns is the tricky part.
EFF fighting for our rights to post stupid shit on on internet.

FFRF fighting for our rights not to live under religious government, and Christian nationalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebeast View Post
no. nothing against strippers. just have never completely trusted anyone in sales and marketing.
UDRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 09:09 AM   #17
Climber
Veteran
 
Climber's Avatar
 
BARF Community Partner
Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Clovis/Fresno
Motorcycles: 01 Goldwing GL1800
Name: Brett
Quote:
Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
China and Indonesia are grounding all 737 Max 8. Interesting that supposedly safety neglectful third world nations are stepping up and the US is doing nothing.
US companies probably crunched the numbers and came up with the most profitable decision.

The smaller airlines probably decided on human decisions.
__________________
Northern and Central Cal Motorcycle incidents: Bay Area CHP Motorcycle Incidents.

Graph and Table I built for seeing state Covid19 data:
Covid19 Visualization graph and table. **NOTE** Using John Hopkins data data, shows State, Country & County data.

Stupid isn't a birthright, it's a state of mind. If somebody is Stupid, it's because they chose to be Stupid.
Climber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 09:27 AM   #18
mrzuzzo
Veteran
 
mrzuzzo's Avatar
 
Contributor +

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Gatos Hills
Motorcycles: The one outside of Starbucks
Name: Victor
I've been fortunate enough to fly twice in them now and survive.

That said, Boeing 737 MAX 8 is trash.

They took a 60yr old design, crammed more seats/space into it, moved the engines up and forward to improve fuel economy, which all made the 737 aerodynamically unstable. So to offset that, they introduced computerized systems like the MCAS that stabilized the aircraft.

This is what happens when bean counters, not engineers, design an aircraft.
mrzuzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 09:51 AM   #19
Climber
Veteran
 
Climber's Avatar
 
BARF Community Partner
Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Clovis/Fresno
Motorcycles: 01 Goldwing GL1800
Name: Brett
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzuzzo View Post
I've been fortunate enough to fly twice in them now and survive.

That said, Boeing 737 MAX 8 is trash.

They took a 60yr old design, crammed more seats/space into it, moved the engines up and forward to improve fuel economy, which all made the 737 aerodynamically unstable. So to offset that, they introduced computerized systems like the MCAS that stabilized the aircraft.

This is what happens when bean counters, not engineers, design an aircraft.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that bean counters set the parameters that engineers have to design around, resulting in a far less stable platform and hoops jumped through that the engineers would not have chosen had it been up to them?

Though, in the end, your statement is accurate, letting the bean counters set the parameters will always cause issues that the bean counters will never understand, nor will most of them care.
__________________
Northern and Central Cal Motorcycle incidents: Bay Area CHP Motorcycle Incidents.

Graph and Table I built for seeing state Covid19 data:
Covid19 Visualization graph and table. **NOTE** Using John Hopkins data data, shows State, Country & County data.

Stupid isn't a birthright, it's a state of mind. If somebody is Stupid, it's because they chose to be Stupid.
Climber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 10:37 AM   #20
aminalmutha
Veteran
 
aminalmutha's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Breastuary.
Motorcycles: Peniscoptor
Name: Balzac
I flew on probably 20 737 MAX 8's in the past year (probably more) and I will likely continue to do so.
__________________
This Smells Like My Perineum.
aminalmutha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 01:39 PM   #21
AbsolutEnduser
Throttle Pusher
 
AbsolutEnduser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF
Motorcycles: Ninja
Name: AE.Quentin
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzuzzo View Post
.., moved the engines up and forward to improve fuel economy, which all made the 737 aerodynamically unstable. So to offset that, they introduced computerized systems like the MCAS that stabilized the aircraft.
Yeah, read that too.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-...lines-crashes/

And lots of other things , including "if the sensor is triggered, possibility of impact with terrain"
__________________
< ----- >
< - > < ----- >

Last edited by AbsolutEnduser; 03-11-2019 at 05:40 PM..
AbsolutEnduser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 06:24 AM   #22
msethhunter
Veteran
 
msethhunter's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SoCal
Motorcycles: '98 VTR1000F, she's a fatty! '89 YSR 50 with a 150, she said "it's so cute!"
Name: Mikey
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsolutEnduser View Post
Yeah, read that too.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-...lines-crashes/

And lots of other things , including "if the sensor is triggered, possibility of impact with terrain"
Yeah, don't trust that news article about it making it aerodynamically unstable. Moving the CG forward does the exact opposite if what they say it does. It makes it more stable.

I have a feeling this is going to come back to faulty AOA sensors, and the pilots inability, as someone else put it ability to color outside the lines.

Primary cause will be the MCAS system. Secondary will be the pilots not using proper technique to interfere with it. If memory serves me correctly, Boeing issued a bulletin about the MCAS system and how to handle it in situations where it's going off inadvertently.
__________________
I may seem like an asshole, but I'm mostly just a sarcastically driven prick. It's not personal.
msethhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 06:26 AM   #23
afm199
Veteran
 
afm199's Avatar
 
Mod Alumni
Founding Member
Top Percent Poster
Contributor +++++++++ +++++++++++++++++3%

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oaklamd
Motorcycles: Yamasuzhonaki 1450
Name: Mikezebub
The current stats on the Max 8 are two crashes and approximately 300 deaths out of 41,000 flights. Sound good? Do the math. That's an average of one death for every 137 flights. The previous four generations are nowhere near that figure. ( Obviously. Nobody is going to fly on an aircraft with that poor a record.)
__________________
That's not true! The lie is actually the truth! I know. Lots of people know this.
afm199 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 06:54 AM   #24
msethhunter
Veteran
 
msethhunter's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SoCal
Motorcycles: '98 VTR1000F, she's a fatty! '89 YSR 50 with a 150, she said "it's so cute!"
Name: Mikey
Quote:
Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
The current stats on the Max 8 are two crashes and approximately 300 deaths out of 41,000 flights. Sound good? Do the math. That's an average of one death for every 137 flights. The previous four generations are nowhere near that figure. ( Obviously. Nobody is going to fly on an aircraft with that poor a record.)
Of which the training at said airlines that have crashed is poor....at best.
__________________
I may seem like an asshole, but I'm mostly just a sarcastically driven prick. It's not personal.
msethhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 07:06 AM   #25
AbsolutEnduser
Throttle Pusher
 
AbsolutEnduser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF
Motorcycles: Ninja
Name: AE.Quentin
Quote:
Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
The current stats on the Max 8 are two crashes and approximately 300 deaths out of 41,000 flights. Sound good? Do the math. That's an average of one death for every 137 flights. The previous four generations are nowhere near that figure. ( Obviously. Nobody is going to fly on an aircraft with that poor a record.)
very easily and clearly explained in the article above actually:

The first commercial flight of the 737 Max 8 was May 22, 2017, for Malindo Air, operating from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore. Southwest Airlines took its first delivery for its 737 Max 8 on Aug. 29, 2017, and debuted the plane Oct. 1, 2017.


Only since 2017 and two crashes!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by msethhunter View Post
Of which the training at said airlines that have crashed is poor....at best.
Are you saying "US pilots have Max 8 incidents all the time but they avoid them"??? Crazy..

Basically I'm hoping you're not saying that..
__________________
< ----- >
< - > < ----- >

Last edited by AbsolutEnduser; 03-12-2019 at 07:07 AM..
AbsolutEnduser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 07:24 AM   #26
planegray
Redwood Original
 
planegray's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2815981
BARF Moderator
Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charming
Motorcycles: bitchin trike with oxygen
Name: Piney
Imo
Most crashes are not the result of one thing wrong, statistically it's the third wrong thing that gets you.
In this case, I'm going with basic design flaw on an aircraft system, poor maintenance, and poor crew response.

This is not the first time something like this has happened
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boei..._rudder_issues
__________________
Don't take life too seriously...you'll never get out of it alive ! Anarchists Unite !
Honorary Member TMU Local 925 : "There he is, get 'em"
"In Lerdo, respect, is obligatory" (seen on a street corner in Mexico)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning1 View Post
But ducky, massive government subsidized projects to rebuild our failing road infrastructure is socialism!
planegray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 07:31 AM   #27
afm199
Veteran
 
afm199's Avatar
 
Mod Alumni
Founding Member
Top Percent Poster
Contributor +++++++++ +++++++++++++++++3%

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oaklamd
Motorcycles: Yamasuzhonaki 1450
Name: Mikezebub
Quote:
Originally Posted by msethhunter View Post
Of which the training at said airlines that have crashed is poor....at best.
Then one would think that the same stats would have extended to the entire four generations, which they did not.
__________________
That's not true! The lie is actually the truth! I know. Lots of people know this.
afm199 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 07:36 AM   #28
Climber
Veteran
 
Climber's Avatar
 
BARF Community Partner
Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Clovis/Fresno
Motorcycles: 01 Goldwing GL1800
Name: Brett
Quote:
Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
Then one would think that the same stats would have extended to the entire four generations, which they did not.
I would agree with this.

When you have to have special training to account for circumstances that can come up this frequently on a commercial airline or it has a good chance of crashing, you have failed to deliver an acceptable commercial plane.

There is something seriously wrong with this plane and with Boeings handling of this issue. If it's the same fault as the last crash, Boeing should have grounded the planes until they had developed a software solution that would fail safe the condition.
__________________
Northern and Central Cal Motorcycle incidents: Bay Area CHP Motorcycle Incidents.

Graph and Table I built for seeing state Covid19 data:
Covid19 Visualization graph and table. **NOTE** Using John Hopkins data data, shows State, Country & County data.

Stupid isn't a birthright, it's a state of mind. If somebody is Stupid, it's because they chose to be Stupid.
Climber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 08:16 AM   #29
afm199
Veteran
 
afm199's Avatar
 
Mod Alumni
Founding Member
Top Percent Poster
Contributor +++++++++ +++++++++++++++++3%

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oaklamd
Motorcycles: Yamasuzhonaki 1450
Name: Mikezebub
As of 9 AM, forty percent of the global fleet is grounded. England, Australia, Singapore, Omar, and several Latin American countries. Boeing down another $25 today.
__________________
That's not true! The lie is actually the truth! I know. Lots of people know this.
afm199 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 08:56 AM   #30
mrzuzzo
Veteran
 
mrzuzzo's Avatar
 
Contributor +

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Gatos Hills
Motorcycles: The one outside of Starbucks
Name: Victor
Boeing will release software update for 737 by April
mrzuzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.