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Old 08-19-2020, 12:12 PM   #46
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I dunno. I've been here a long time and these kinds of issues never seemed to have existed, at least for the first 30+ years I was alive.

It seems like now, every other year, we have carbon particulate fog everywhere and power outages.

Why wasn't half of California on fire every other year 30+ years ago?
that pesky climate change thing
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Old 08-19-2020, 12:33 PM   #47
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You'd have to qualify that. I understand that the lightning storms ignited a number of fires, but it's not like CA never has lightning, and it's been many years between. Although I'd give a nod to that given how spectacular the storms were. Reminded me of the time I lived in Louisiana, where that shit happened many times every year, and the state never burned. Never mind it's swampland...

You're taking the position that a couple degree increase in average global temperature is causing all these fires? These are acute occurrences with direct cause that does not seem directly attributable to climate change.

30 years ago PGE was shitty and we had lightning storms, heat waves, and drought, but I could still breathe.
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Old 08-19-2020, 12:37 PM   #48
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Spare the Air Alert through 8/23. Wood burning is banned
(it was also two days in the past week)
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Old 08-19-2020, 12:49 PM   #49
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You'd have to qualify that. I understand that the lightning storms ignited a number of fires, but it's not like CA never has lightning, and it's been many years between. Although I'd give a nod to that given how spectacular the storms were. Reminded me of the time I lived in Louisiana, where that shit happened many times every year, and the state never burned. Never mind it's swampland...

You're taking the position that a couple degree increase in average global temperature is causing all these fires? These are acute occurrences with direct cause that does not seem directly attributable to climate change.

30 years ago PGE was shitty and we had lightning storms, heat waves, and drought, but I could still breathe.
Climate change certainly seems to be playing a role here. Hotter summers, generally milder winters and now very seldom summer storms. Weather patterns completely changing (like the Ridiculously Resilient Ridge that comes in and blocks all weather for weeks or months at a time).

On the other side we are also paying for decades of misguided forestry policy. It turns out absolute fire suppression has turned much of the state into an overgrown tinderbox which actually leaves forests less healthy than allowing natural fires to clear areas out.
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Old 08-19-2020, 12:49 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ctwo View Post
You'd have to qualify that. I understand that the lightning storms ignited a number of fires, but it's not like CA never has lightning, and it's been many years between. Although I'd give a nod to that given how spectacular the storms were. Reminded me of the time I lived in Louisiana, where that shit happened many times every year, and the state never burned. Never mind it's swampland...

You're taking the position that a couple degree increase in average global temperature is causing all these fires? These are acute occurrences with direct cause that does not seem directly attributable to climate change.

30 years ago PGE was shitty and we had lightning storms, heat waves, and drought, but I could still breathe.
I am taking the position that a couple degree increase in global temperature plays a much, much larger role than you're allowing.
Death Valley had what is presumed to be the third-hottest August day on earth in recorded history this week at 130 degrees.

If the temperature is valid, it would also rank among the top-three highest temperatures ever measured on the planet at any time and may, in fact, be the highest...
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Old 08-19-2020, 01:20 PM   #51
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I am taking the position that a couple degree increase in global temperature plays a much, much larger role than you're allowing.
Death Valley had what is presumed to be the third-hottest August day on earth in recorded history this week at 130 degrees.

If the temperature is valid, it would also rank among the top-three highest temperatures ever measured on the planet at any time and may, in fact, be the highest...
You'd have to go back in time and try to qualify how each fire is grossly attributable to climate change. For example, why Paradise burned, and etc.

Pointing out some record temps is anecdotal. I haven't checked, but is or has Death valley burnt to the ground? (I checked for you Google mongers and the first result was a fire of 5 years ago - because ya know, Google has all the answears)

You might say this recent lightning storm is unprecedented and caused by climate change, but the entire bay area has been filled with smoke practically annually for the past 10 years, and that is unusual.

But I was more focused on us having a dozen fires blazing for days now with 0% containment. That doesn't seem usual.
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Old 08-19-2020, 01:26 PM   #52
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If only it was so simple as to be able to attribute current events to a single origin...

I think it's a combination of misguided forest management and drier than historical weather...

Plus China...they're my boogeyman these days
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Old 08-19-2020, 01:30 PM   #53
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Fire is much more robust and probable when temps go up.

Temps are higher than their historical averages.

Is it the only cause? Of course not. But it seems silly to discount it out of hand.
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Old 08-19-2020, 01:36 PM   #54
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For sure CABilly's post gets a +1 from me
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Old 08-19-2020, 01:36 PM   #55
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Pointing out some record temps is anecdotal. I haven't checked, but is or has Death valley burnt to the ground?
Death Valley does not have forests growing there. So don't know where you are going with Death Valley burning to the ground comment? There isn't much vegetation to burn there this time of the year.
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:01 PM   #56
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I dunno. I've been here a long time and these kinds of issues never seemed to have existed, at least for the first 30+ years I was alive.

It seems like now, every other year, we have carbon particulate fog everywhere and power outages.

Why wasn't half of California on fire every other year 30+ years ago?
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Originally Posted by kevin 714 View Post
that pesky climate change thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctwo View Post
You'd have to qualify that. I understand that the lightning storms ignited a number of fires, but it's not like CA never has lightning, and it's been many years between. Although I'd give a nod to that given how spectacular the storms were. Reminded me of the time I lived in Louisiana, where that shit happened many times every year, and the state never burned. Never mind it's swampland...

You're taking the position that a couple degree increase in average global temperature is causing all these fires? These are acute occurrences with direct cause that does not seem directly attributable to climate change.

30 years ago PGE was shitty and we had lightning storms, heat waves, and drought, but I could still breathe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mean dad View Post
I am taking the position that a couple degree increase in global temperature plays a much, much larger role than you're allowing.
Death Valley had what is presumed to be the third-hottest August day on earth in recorded history this week at 130 degrees.

If the temperature is valid, it would also rank among the top-three highest temperatures ever measured on the planet at any time and may, in fact, be the highest...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctwo View Post
You'd have to go back in time and try to qualify how each fire is grossly attributable to climate change. For example, why Paradise burned, and etc.

Pointing out some record temps is anecdotal. I haven't checked, but is or has Death valley burnt to the ground? (I checked for you Google mongers and the first result was a fire of 5 years ago - because ya know, Google has all the answears)

You might say this recent lightning storm is unprecedented and caused by climate change, but the entire bay area has been filled with smoke practically annually for the past 10 years, and that is unusual.

But I was more focused on us having a dozen fires blazing for days now with 0% containment. That doesn't seem usual.

This is a perfect example of someone who will never change their viewpoint or admit that you may have a point.

Ask a question, someone provides an answer. Dismiss the answer and demand evidence. Evidence is given, dismisses the evidence, demands more evidence.

Sorry man, they don't owe you that. Do your own research. Argue intelligently. Don't expect everyone else to do your work.
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:15 PM   #57
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So basically, the answer to OP’s question is: every place we ride.
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:23 PM   #58
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Sky is brown here in Monterey and our cars are covered with ash.

Maybe we should manage our forests/cut some trees down every once in a while. Just a thought.
Start raking, man...
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:45 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Brokenlink View Post
This is a perfect example of someone who will never change their viewpoint or admit that you may have a point.

Ask a question, someone provides an answer. Dismiss the answer and demand evidence. Evidence is given, dismisses the evidence, demands more evidence.

Sorry man, they don't owe you that. Do your own research. Argue intelligently. Don't expect everyone else to do your work.
Hey, I'm just taking the POV that climate change should not be the scapegoat for everything that happens. I mean, if I asked why the ghost fire, cuz climate change, asking for an explanation is out of line?

Y'alls must be buddies or sumthin. And you just want to be judgmental and presumptuous.

Again, there are about a dozen fires blazing for days now. The vast majority are 0% contained, and the few that have any containment are at most 10%. I ask WTF? Reason given is climate change. Makes no sense. Climate change is preventing containment?

The only explanation that came close to an explanation was that it's hot and the areas are remote. Perhaps that could explain it to a degree. Is that the only thing going on that is preventing containment? How is heat and remote areas preventing air retardant drops? How could most of these fires still be 0% contained? Climate change is preventing firefighters from doing their job?

Maybe there are only enough firefighters to attack three of the dozen or so fires, and they are leaving the rest to freely burn for now. That would make a bit of sense, more so than just blaming climate change, which, BTW, is not evidence. How is just pointing at climate evidence? Seems like target fixation to me.

Now, I'm not a climate change denier. We may quibble about all of the causes. Now, for the lightning storm, you may have a point...
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Last edited by ctwo; 08-19-2020 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:53 PM   #60
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Death Valley does not have forests growing there. So don't know where you are going with Death Valley burning to the ground comment? There isn't much vegetation to burn there this time of the year.
I did not introduce death valley record temps as having anything to do with why we have a dozen out-of-control fires in the bay area. Go ask the source of that tangent.
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