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Old 09-22-2020, 07:02 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by usedtobefast View Post
Wow, lot of hate on here for recruiters!

From the hiring manager side of things, I always made sure to have a few awesome recruiters to work with.

A resume sent into the company's hiring website has zero vetting and usually tons of them. Post a job, get 150 resumes. Kind of a pain as the hiring manager going through all of them to sort out who is a decent fit or not.

But a great recruiter, give them the job description, quick chat about what you want, and they send over 2-3 candidates that are well vetted already and a pretty good match.

So I would only go wade thru the 100's of resumes if my recruiters had not gotten me any great candidates (which was like 5% of the time).

So being all pissy about recruiters is hurting a great path into a company.
A lot of truth in this post.

I'd been assigned to and engineering department and was tasked with recruiting for the entire department. I think I'd helped bring on close to 75 in 6 months. Most all were engineers. The VP invited me to a staff meeting. Got in and he thanked me in front of all his directors. That was cool. Then, kicked my ass back out of his meeting to continue.

I was sitting back at my desk when one of the directors walked in following the meeting demanding to know why I hadn't helped him hire a single person. I told him that not only had I not helped him hire a single person, that I hadn't looked at a single resume, hadn't made a single phone call. He looked at me like we wanted to kill me and asked, "Why?"

I told him he had THE most complicated function within Engineering and that I didn't posses an engineering degree, that I'd been trying to get an hour with him FOR MONTHS, so that he could explain what it was that he was looking for and what it was that his department was tasked with, and that he'd blown me off at every singe request. I then showed him a stack of about 200 resumes and said that I would NEVER dump a pile like that on any of my hiring managers desk. It's my job to vet them, but I can't do that if I don't understand what I'm looking for. He nodded, agreed, and said, "Can you be in my office at 3:00 today?" I replied, "I'll be there. Thank you!"

Many people do love to hate on HR. I'm use to it, but I refuse to argue about it. There are a TON of moving parts that impact employment and most of those parts are human with all their strengths, weaknesses, personalities, communication styles, priorities and on and on. Guys like usedtobefast get it though, are fun to work with and make it easier.
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Last edited by DReg350; 09-22-2020 at 07:10 PM..
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:16 PM   #32
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See, that kinda recruiting I can get on board with. Unfortunately...cold call spam seems to be / have been the standard.

I will say that LinkedIn has been getting a LOT better at filtering things the last year or so and my gripes are mainly from 2-3 years ago. These days I get things at least sorta targeted to my position, somewhat relevant to my experience, and there's a lot less "give me your resume" and a lot more "hey, here's who I am and who I'm working with, are you interested in chatting a bit more about this position we have?"

edit - that being said I'm also in a position these days where I get resumes coming to me for placement around the company even though I'm not a hiring manager or recruiter, so I've spent more time helping people tailor their resumes as well as worked with recruiters and hiring managers to filter directly to good candidates. The recruiters I've worked with from that angle have been awesome and are definitely go-getters when I send them someone I think is a good fit for a position they're trying to fill.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:20 PM   #33
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Offer him a BJ. Always works for me
I would definitely pay you to not blow me, good advice.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:33 PM   #34
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Companies and recruiters almost always have a written agreement on file. The agreement offers protections for both the company and the agency. One of the protections involves candidate introductions and payment. Once an agency introduces a candidate to the company, the company agrees to pay the agency a fee if that candidate is hired by the company for the next x number of months. That time frame is usually 6 to 12 months. That variability is based on many factors. The email containing the candidate introduction (i.e. candidate resume) usually serves as the time stamp and starts the clock.

This is also used by companies to document which agency provided the introduction first, thus who is entitled to the fee if multiple agencies introduce the same candidate.

So, it doesn't matter if you work through the recruiter or around them. If they introduced you to the company and can prove that you were hired within the contract window, that agency is entitled to a fee.

My guess is there is more going on behind the scene that the recruiter is either unable or unwilling to share with you.
Now that this guy has my resume, suppose another project comes up along the lines of my qualifications. He contacted me about one particular project but what happens if he submits my resume for this second project. Is he entitled to a fee for submitting it even if I go directly to the HR department of this second project and they hire me, and I don't even speak to the recruiter about it?

As far as Linkedin I simply ignore all contact requests from recruiters. I generally know someone at whatever projects I've been interested in. Thats whats gotten me in the door for the past 20+ years.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:51 PM   #35
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Now that this guy has my resume, suppose another project comes up along the lines of my qualifications. He contacted me about one particular project but what happens if he submits my resume for this second project. Is he entitled to a fee for submitting it even if I go directly to the HR department of this second project and they hire me, and I don't even speak to the recruiter about it?

As far as Linkedin I simply ignore all contact requests from recruiters. I generally know someone at whatever projects I've been interested in. Thats whats gotten me in the door for the past 20+ years.
Depends on the deal, but usually if you get hired for anything within a certain amount of time, they are owed a fee.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:02 AM   #36
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I've had nothing but negative experiences with recruiters. I had a manager at Robert Half Technology tell me was I banned from there SF office. First, he was somewhat put off that I actually read their contract. Then he got really mad when I said I wouldn't agree to a certain clause in it. They wanted me to notify them of any job I took with no time limit specified. This was just a contract they wanted me to sign before they even worked with me to get an interview. I went in to MacArthur and Associates in SF also. They had folding tables setup in the middle of a big room. They called it the bullpen. Those people didn't have a clue about the jobs they were recruiting for other than bullet points on their scripts.

I've never had a recruiter be prompt and respond when said were going to.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:00 AM   #37
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I love when they offer a 6 month contract in another state. I often ask them if they're suggesting I should quit my full time job to take this contract in Bumfuck, Iowa. The smart ones don't respond.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:15 AM   #38
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I love when they offer a 6 month contract in another state. I often ask them if they're suggesting I should quit my full time job to take this contract in Bumfuck, Iowa. The smart ones don't respond.
Amazon is notorious for that. I'd say about 2-3x per month I get recruiters (both for contractors and Amazon itself) asking me if I want to take a position for Amazon and move to Seattle.

I finally started responding to each one that I had family obligations keeping me here in the bay area for the foreseeable future and they trickled off but occasionally I still get one or two here and there.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:36 AM   #39
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I hear they get more persistent if you decline an offer.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:17 AM   #40
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Just heard back from the recruiter. Guess the managers and HR people are spread out. Have a phone in interview next week with a dude in Spain. Hope his English is good. I work with some Spaniards currently and they can be difficult to understand face to face. I no hablo Español
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:42 AM   #41
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Good luck! Let your experience do all the talking

All you need to do is suppress that grumpy-ness for the duration of the call
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:22 AM   #42
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I've had nothing but negative experiences with recruiters. I had a manager at Robert Half Technology tell me was I banned from there SF office. First, he was somewhat put off that I actually read their contract. Then he got really mad when I said I wouldn't agree to a certain clause in it. They wanted me to notify them of any job I took with no time limit specified. This was just a contract they wanted me to sign before they even worked with me to get an interview. I went in to MacArthur and Associates in SF also. They had folding tables setup in the middle of a big room. They called it the bullpen. Those people didn't have a clue about the jobs they were recruiting for other than bullet points on their scripts.

I've never had a recruiter be prompt and respond when said were going to.
I mean right there, these guys aren't willing to work for you. First thing you have to do before you get on board with a recruiter is demand they do a GOATSE for you, full stop, with photo documentation.

If they can commit that hard, let's do business.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:04 PM   #43
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I mean right there, these guys aren't willing to work for you. First thing you have to do before you get on board with a recruiter is demand they do a GOATSE for you, full stop, with photo documentation.

If they can commit that hard, let's do business.
DON'T DO IT!!! Don't Google "Goatse". You can't un-see that shit, and you don't want to see it. Keep the photo documentation.

But, he's right. You have to vet the recruiter just like they do you. I should write you guys a list of questions to ask. Look, talking with ANYONE is a two way bi directional conversation until it isn't. There are times when I don't get to say a word. I get that. Vetting a recruiter isn't one of those times. If, during your initial in depth convo with them they are unwilling or unable to answer basic questions relating to recruiting and placement experience, industry and functional area experience, and how they go about presenting you if they find what they believe to be a suitable opportunity... move the fuck on. Trust your gut.
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:08 PM   #44
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I've had nothing but negative experiences with recruiters. I had a manager at Robert Half Technology tell me was I banned from there SF office. First, he was somewhat put off that I actually read their contract. Then he got really mad when I said I wouldn't agree to a certain clause in it. They wanted me to notify them of any job I took with no time limit specified. This was just a contract they wanted me to sign before they even worked with me to get an interview. I went in to MacArthur and Associates in SF also. They had folding tables setup in the middle of a big room. They called it the bullpen. Those people didn't have a clue about the jobs they were recruiting for other than bullet points on their scripts.

I've never had a recruiter be prompt and respond when said were going to.
well yeah, you could stop at robert half, those guys are bottom of the barrel
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:55 PM   #45
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DON'T DO IT!!! Don't Google "Goatse". You can't un-see that shit, and you don't want to see it. Keep the photo documentation.

But, he's right. You have to vet the recruiter just like they do you. I should write you guys a list of questions to ask. Look, talking with ANYONE is a two way bi directional conversation until it isn't. There are times when I don't get to say a word. I get that. Vetting a recruiter isn't one of those times. If, during your initial in depth convo with them they are unwilling or unable to answer basic questions relating to recruiting and placement experience, industry and functional area experience, and how they go about presenting you if they find what they believe to be a suitable opportunity... move the fuck on. Trust your gut.
No way, no GOATSE, no deal. If he has tears, that also helps. I like that commitment.
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