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Old 01-10-2019, 02:18 PM   #91
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The clowns who built the facility were totally open about it - to paraphrase their opening call "we were given your electrode technology by [a PRC equivalent to DOE] but it doesn't work, please come here immediately and fix it"
Should have told them that the cost was $1 Million/hour with a 20 hour minimum.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:20 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by OldMadBrit View Post
The clowns who built the facility were totally open about it - to paraphrase their opening call "we were given your electrode technology by [a PRC equivalent to DOE] but it doesn't work, please come here immediately and fix it"
Did they expect you to do the work for free, because you're a nice guy?
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:51 PM   #93
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Your company pulled a move outlined in SunTzu's Art Of War. Ironic the Chinese Commies fell for it.
Yup I read it before we started negotiating with them I followed an old Brit philosophy "first know your adversary".
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:50 PM   #94
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I could keep two occupied but they sent 3 and I was worried that one would go through my stuff while the other 2 had me distracted.


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No shit. I had a buddy from a local tech company who recently took a few of his guys to China to work with a supplier of a component for their product and he said they kept trying to separate them and get them out of the room with their materials left behind. He said they would take their laptops and briefcases with them into the bathroom, as they didn't trust the Chinese contacts at all.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:53 PM   #95
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Patents are only in effect in the country that they're filed in. You have to file for a patent in each country you want protection in. Same with copyright.
No shit, but guess why companies rarely ever file patents in China? Because IP protection there is a fucking joke.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:53 PM   #96
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I told OldMadBrit's story to my dad and he went "Yup....it's best to keep everything on a USB drive" (Impressive he'd know that he's 70)

Then he said a Chinese company copied a microwave oven which had a mistake hole drilled into it so every Chinese copy had a useless hole.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:56 PM   #97
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I told OldMadBrit's story to my dad and he went "Yup....it's best to keep everything on a USB drive" (Impressive he'd know that he's 70)
Unless its one of the millions of brand new USB drives shipped from China with malware on them.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:58 PM   #98
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Unless its one of the millions of brand new USB drives shipped from China with malware on them.
I think he's a little behind the times
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:02 PM   #99
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No shit, but guess why companies rarely ever file patents in China? Because IP protection there is a fucking joke.
I wouldn't be surprised if China didn't have people working full time accessing and copying patent filings in this country to get at the secrets that people are trying to protect with their patent.

I've advised several companies over the years that going the rate of trade secret is often a more viable option than filing a patent where you're spelling things out. Too many managers/execs were too fixated on 'IP' to listen to reason.
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:59 PM   #100
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I wouldn't be surprised if China didn't have people working full time accessing and copying patent filings in this country to get at the secrets that people are trying to protect with their patent.
Of course they do! That's one of the primary roles of the back room guys in their technical institutes.

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I've advised several companies over the years that going the rate of trade secret is often a more viable option than filing a patent where you're spelling things out. Too many managers/execs were too fixated on 'IP' to listen to reason.
Agreed good advice. The challenge is that its hard to structure a license around trade secrets when the licensee expects to license patents.

We struggled with this for >20 years and developed some pretty effective protocols - they included:

1) never let the fuckers inside your facility - only show them results and never ever take anything embodying or describing your IP to the PRC until you have received full payment;

2) never file in the US first - USPTO is utterly FUBAR on so many levels. We typically filed in Korea first. KIPO has a healthy bias against US tech companies - so you get a really thorough examination - not like the cursory crap from USPTO. If your filing passes KIPO it will pass anywhere. Best of all the PRC is super cautious about antagonizing KIPO so a KIPO patent carries more weight in PRC than a USPTO patent.

3) file "distraction patents" as soon as you can. Only file stuff that kind of works (it has to reduce to practice to be valid) but is definitely not what you actually do. The idea is to misdirect and confuse the crap out of all those trying to either copy your IP or file gateway IP on top of it.

4) file new IP and improvements covering what you actually do as late as possible and obfuscate the filings with as much plausible BS as the examiner will allow. You want the one or two important claims to be buried among 20-30 plausible but unimportant claims;

I was in Military Aerospace in the 70's and 80's and dealt with Japanese and FSU companies. IMHO they were all IP thieving assholes - but the PRC operates on a whole new level.

I spent 12 years working in technology licensing in PRC and came away convinced that:

1) PRC leadership has nothing but contempt for Westerners (round eyes)
2) pretty much everybody in the PRC views stealing IP from round eyes simply as a sport - much like duck hunting, where our IP are the ducks.

I really don't think Western leaders have the first clue just how big of a threat PRC really is.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:03 AM   #101
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1) PRC leadership has nothing but contempt for Westerners (round eyes)
2) pretty much everybody in the PRC views stealing IP from round eyes simply as a sport - much like duck hunting, where our IP are the ducks.

I really don't think Western leaders have the first clue just how big of a threat PRC really is.
"Round eyes" isn't really a contemptuous term for Westerners anymore. In fact, the round eyes phenotype is the among of the highest standards for beauty in Asian cultures and thousands of both rich and poor Asians get plastic surgery to achieve the coveted round eyes.

To show contempt, the Chinese use epithets like "Gwei-Loh" (Ghost Person), "AhDoAh" (Big Nose), and "Lao Wai" (Old Outsider/Foreigner). The last one is slowly losing its pejorative connotation though because Europeans living and working in China have embraced the word as their own.

You are absolutely right about the PRC Commie Bastards. They have the legacy of the 100 Years of Humiliation forever ingrained into their collective memory and they badly want payback. They will stop at nothing to be #1 and will do anything to achieve it.

Jump to 12:50... Jim Jefferies is a prophet about China!


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Old 01-12-2019, 07:38 PM   #102
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No shit. I had a buddy from a local tech company who recently took a few of his guys to China to work with a supplier of a component for their product and he said they kept trying to separate them and get them out of the room with their materials left behind. He said they would take their laptops and briefcases with them into the bathroom, as they didn't trust the Chinese contacts at all.
Go to any trade show and you'll see the chins with their micro eyeglass and or lapel cameras. Lessay like me you're an equipment builder. They'll stop by and place an inconspicuous little 1/4" diameter round dot msticker on your equipment. Then they'll take a couple pictures of your stuff. The dot is a known size and the picture can be scaled to determine measurements of whatever you have. One year later and your exact equipment is on sale from xyz importing biz.

I figured this out years ago and a lot of their espionage is carried out after hours. So to thwart this I had my guys cover all of our stuff at the end of the exhibiting day to stop their prying eyes.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:17 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by OldMadBrit View Post
1) PRC leadership has nothing but contempt for Westerners (round eyes) 2) pretty much everybody in the PRC views stealing IP from round eyes simply as a sport - much like duck hunting, where our IP are the ducks.

I really don't think Western leaders have the first clue just how big of a threat PRC really is.
Maybe not just a PRC vs Westerners gwailo thing. Maybe more of a internal, historical, cultural, moral thing even against themselves.


youtu.be/FfLnFVzfKBs
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:43 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by renxianqiclone View Post

To show contempt, the Chinese use epithets like "Gwei-Loh" (Ghost Person), "AhDoAh" (Big Nose), and "Lao Wai" (Old Outsider/Foreigner). The last one is slowly losing its pejorative connotation though because Europeans living and working in China have embraced the word as their own.
By the way, these words typically not derogatory, not even Big Nose. Also, you are mixing Cantonese and Mandarin. Cantonese is more rare (Hong Kong, Macau)
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:47 PM   #105
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Maybe not just a PRC vs Westerners gwailo thing. Maybe more of a internal, historical, cultural, moral thing even against themselves.


youtu.be/FfLnFVzfKBs
Yes this is on the money. Saw lots of total apathy towards some really disturbing events in my times there.
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