A Friends Incident - opinion request

[Beanzy]

Originally Posted by Enchanter

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So it's not a bicycle lane (and for that matter a passing lane).

So the rider stayed in his lane and attempted a foolish split. Got it.

Question is, Will he attempt this silly behavior again, hoping for a different outcome?

Answer: Probably. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, dang! Shoulda learned the first time.

[W800]

I can't comment on the legality of what the bus driver did or didn't do. But I've been riding for a long time (45 years ) and I finally got the the point where it doesn't matter whether or not what the other person does is illegal or not. The reason is that if a driver does something illegal, and it kills me, the fact that what they did was illegal won't cause me to not be dead.

In the situation that your friend faced, I would have split the lane too. But I would have stopped by the door and "walked" (Fred-Flintstoned) the bike past the door. BTW, I'm one of those people who NEVER puts their feet down unless I absolutely need to. As soon as I leave a light, my feet are up. If I come to a stop sign, I stop and keep the bike balanced and keep my feet on the pegs, then go, etc. . .

But for something like this, where it's just so sketchy, I will "caveman" it, at like one MPH. At that speed, and since your are walking the bike, even if you get doored, not much will happen.

Others folks might not agree. I haven't seen anything in any of the books about this technique. And it's possibly bad (slippery roads being one reason). But it's been working for me. Never been doored (yet).

Originally Posted by Hybridchemistry

Hey folks, a month or more back a buddy of mine was in an incident in Oakland with the Emery-go-round bus system. He walked away with minor scratches and a few bent items on the bike.

[snip]

While I can easily acknowledge that splitting between two STOPPED buses isn't the safest practice, I can't understand how opening a bus door in the middle of a street is not fault causing in the eyes of the Emery-go-round system. Note that left bus is stopped behind traffic, right bus stops about the same distance forward, but no traffic in front of them.

Thoughts on who's at fault?

[afm199]

Originally Posted by W800

I can't comment on the legality of what the bus driver did or didn't do. But I've been riding for a long time (45 years ) and I finally got the the point where it doesn't matter whether or not what the other person does is illegal or not. The reason is that if a driver does something illegal, and it kills me, the fact that what they did was illegal won't cause me to not be dead.

In the situation that your friend faced, I would have split the lane too. But I would have stopped by the door and "walked" (Fred-Flintstoned) the bike past the door. BTW, I'm one of those people who NEVER puts their feet down unless I absolutely need to. As soon as I leave a light, my feet are up. If I come to a stop sign, I stop and keep the bike balanced and keep my feet on the pegs, then go, etc. . .

But for something like this, where it's just so sketchy, I will "caveman" it, at like one MPH. At that speed, and since your are walking the bike, even if you get doored, not much will happen.

Others folks might not agree. I haven't seen anything in any of the books about this technique. And it's possibly bad (slippery roads being one reason). But it's been working for me. Never been doored (yet).

Spoken like a survivor. I'm of the "worst possible scenario" mindset. Every time I ride, bicycle or motorcycle, I assume that every other driver out there is waiting to kill me, and just wants me to look away. I stay the hell away from busses, trucks, and large moving masses, and never give them the chance to make my mindset justifiable.

[W800]

Originally Posted by afm199

Spoken like a survivor. I'm of the "worst possible scenario" mindset. Every time I ride, bicycle or motorcycle, I assume that every other driver out there is waiting to kill me, and just wants me to look away. I stay the hell away from busses, trucks, and large moving masses, and never give them the chance to make my mindset justifiable.

Agreed! I remember when I started riding a lot in SF, I learned a motorcycle messenger trick. As you may know, SF pedestrians aren't like New York pedestrians. People treat SF like it's Disneyland, and are hence super random.

I was taught that if a pedestrian gets in front of you on the street (like not in a crosswalk), brake HARD but in a straight line. I was also told to shout the word "MOVE" (not use horn). This all happens in a few seconds.

The reason is that if you try and turn, they won't understand that you are countersteering. They will actually move into your intended turn because they subconsciously move the opposite direction of your bars. If you don't shout MOVE, they will freeze. Idea is to get them to move even a couple feet out of your path.

I've actually experienced this. And it's worked the few times I have had to use it.

For deer and other animals, turning makes sense when possible. But for people, straight line with extreme braking seems to work better.

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah hold your line and make them move! At least that breaks the mirror-image reflex response. I’ve seen two pedestrians on sidewalk come towards each other do the move-left, move-right mirror dance and eventually bump heads!

SF pedestrians are idiots. SF has some of highest pedestrian fatality rates out of any major city. Too much “i’m entitled and you have to watch out for me” syndrome, walking into street without looking while chattering/texting on their phones. I’m gonna start swiping phones if I see them when riding by and sell on fleabay!

[W800]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Yeah hold your line and make them move! At least that breaks the mirror-image reflex response. I’ve seen two pedestrians on sidewalk come towards each other do the move-left, move-right mirror dance and eventually bump heads!

SF pedestrians are idiots. SF has some of highest pedestrian fatality rates out of any major city. Too much “i’m entitled and you have to watch out for me” syndrome, walking into street without looking while chattering/texting on their phones. I’m gonna start swiping phones if I see them when riding by and sell on fleabay!

Yup! That's also how I walk in SF -I just keep a reasonable line and say excuse me if I need to (or I will move for elderly people or people with walkers, in wheelchairs, etc - it's harder for them to change lines, lol)