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Old 02-13-2019, 03:12 PM   #46
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The shoulda left it an artillery range....
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:24 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Johndicezx9 View Post
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The shoulda left it an artillery range....
Combo track and artillery range, people do say watching racing gets boring sometimes....

As much as I love motorsports and the track, this is basically rich hobbyist fighting rich landowners. I'm not going to get too bent out of shape or worried about the social justice issues of closing a racetrack.
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:31 PM   #48
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They've been doing it for a few years now.
They mentioned that the sound monitors are roaming occasionally, but as stated, my track day was a single location which was emphasized and pointed out several times. Maybe that's just your experience with AFM races? But it's not 100% roaming.
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:51 PM   #49
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We're not able to race there with AFM, that's just my experience from trackdays as well...and I don't do many there, but they're pretty darn vigilant all over the track.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:17 PM   #50
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Combo track and artillery range, people do say watching racing gets boring sometimes....

As much as I love motorsports and the track, this is basically rich hobbyist fighting rich landowners. I'm not going to get too bent out of shape or worried about the social justice issues of closing a racetrack.
Except for that $85 million that trickles in to the economy... my local economy.

Why do you hate America?
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:21 PM   #51
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It's a race track, not some great social good uplifting the poor from poverty. Maybe instead of burning gas and making tons of noise people should do something useful with their time and money?

Wretched excess is a pretty good description of motorsports....huge sums of money, fuel and land to keep a small group of pretty wealthy people entertained.
It's not just a racetrack. The johnny-come-lately whiners have complained about all the activities at Laguna Seca.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:25 PM   #52
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It's a race track, not some great social good uplifting the poor from poverty. Maybe instead of burning gas and making tons of noise people should do something useful with their time and money?

Wretched excess is a pretty good description of motorsports....huge sums of money, fuel and land to keep a small group of pretty wealthy people entertained.
There are plenty of non wealthy that enjoy it.
Track day riders, fans, turn workers etc.

The benefits may be wretched excess to you, but to me in my youth as a near broke racer with kids it was a lifeline to my passion.

Love me some Laguna.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:35 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by bpw View Post
Combo track and artillery range, people do say watching racing gets boring sometimes....

As much as I love motorsports and the track, this is basically rich hobbyist fighting rich landowners. I'm not going to get too bent out of shape or worried about the social justice issues of closing a racetrack.
What are you talking about? 50,000 spectators at a motorcycle race are all rich people? Are you sure you are on the right forum?

Race tickets are cheaper than Pro Football or Pro Basketball. I would go after those rich punks, first. Oh, and lets us not forget all the darn yachts in Monterey. Talk about rich hobbyists. I bet some of those weekend sailors are complaining about Laguna, because that's how they selfishly roll float.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:29 PM   #54
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It's not just a racetrack. The johnny-come-lately whiners have complained about all the activities at Laguna Seca.
I live next to the Chevron refinery, it has been here forever and creates huge amounts of money, but I would still love to see it go. Perhaps you would like to live downwind of a refinery?

Why should something being there for a long time have relevance, its either good for the community now or it isn't.

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There are plenty of non wealthy that enjoy it.
Track day riders, fans, turn workers etc.

The benefits may be wretched excess to you, but to me in my youth as a near broke racer with kids it was a lifeline to my passion.

Love me some Laguna.
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What are you talking about? 50,000 spectators at a motorcycle race are all rich people? Are you sure you are on the right forum?

Race tickets are cheaper than Pro Football or Pro Basketball. I would go after those rich punks, first. Oh, and lets us not forget all the darn yachts in Monterey. Talk about rich hobbyists. I bet some of those weekend sailors are complaining about Laguna, because that's how they selfishly roll float.
I like the tracks, love motorcycles and want Laguna to stay put. But arguing for its existence is pointless if we don't admit to ourselves that it is a very small portion of the population that has any interest in the track, especially outside of a few big race weekends.

It's true a that a few of the big spectator events aren't huge money to attend (though still not cheap $690 average spend per person), but all the other days of the year dedicated to track days sure do cost a lot to be part of. We live in a country that has a substantial portion of the population unable to afford a surprise $500 bill, anyone doing track days is doing pretty well off.

Again, I like the track, and think that people shouldn't bitch about buying a house next to one, but presenting this as "those rich complainers on the hill" vs Joe Average is silly. If we want to effectively advocate for its continued existence we need to take a very honest look at what we are fighting for and who will support us, otherwise our arguments will be easily defeated and we lose. Trying to convince people about the existence of some mythical poor track rider is a losing battle that won't win any friends and will frankly sound pretty ridiculous to an outsider, especially if they have seen the line of $50-100,000 toy haulers at your average track day. As a reasonably well off guy with a good job, I am often shocked at the amount of cash on display at a track day, can't imagine what it look like to someone struggling to make rent.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:51 PM   #55
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Is that refinery still using lead?
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:09 PM   #56
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Is that refinery still using lead?
Who knows, they aren't exactly forthcoming with the local community. We do have some really high rates of stuff like asthma and cancer. The freeway and rail yards are certainly a problem, but the refinery a mile upwind can't be a good thing.

God knows whats leaching into the soil out there, I'm sure all kinds of crap has been dumped over the years. Unfortunately they are something like 30% of the cities tax base (despite paying really low rates), so they pretty much do what they want, and deny everything when something goes wrong.

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Old 02-14-2019, 04:55 PM   #57
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Huh... regarding Pasadera, Laguna Seca golf course was opened long after the track, in 1970. Pasadera devolopement was initiated by the Lombardos in the 90’s, early ‘00s after they were denied development of Rancho Canada in Carmel Valley, long after the track. Add in developements like Markham Ranch in the 90s, also long after the track was there. Additional developement in the Laurales area also brought in a lot of people that later complained about the track.

What was at the track location before Laguna Seca? A US Army artillery range all the way up to the mid 50s....

The Ryan Ranch area was barely there, York School, a few houses, and offices.
The land Pasadera is on was bought by the Bishop family in the early 50s, well before the Track was built. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Laguna die hard, I'm just smart enough to know it's not a simple NIMBY issue, particularly if the sound studies were rigged.

And again, if you haven't been in the surrounding canyons on a unrestricted sound day at Laguna, you probably have no idea how loud it really is. It shocked me the first time I heard it from a couple miles away. And I love the sounds of the track.

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Old 02-14-2019, 04:56 PM   #58
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They are roving now.
Well they must not be roving at car days, because the cars are easily defeating Laguna's sound check with GPS controllers that shut the exhaust valve from 5 to 6 and then open it the rest of the track.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:30 PM   #59
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:36 PM   #60
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The land Pasadera is on was bought by the Bishop family in the early 50s, well before the Track was built. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Laguna die hard, I'm just smart enough to know it's not a simple NIMBY issue, particularly if the sound studies were rigged.

And again, if you haven't been in the surrounding canyons on a unrestricted sound day at Laguna, you probably have no idea how loud it really is. It shocked me the first time I heard it from a couple miles away. And I love the sounds of the track.
Just so you know, I have lived here on the Monterey Pen all my life. I’m quite familiar with the history. The Bishops/LGCC were never allowed to develope because when they finally presented their plans it just happened to coincide with the drought of 1976.

Pasadera was developed decades later because the Lombardos (who owned it at the time) swung a deal with the county similar to Clint Eastwood’s offer when his Tehama Club was approved. They traded the land at Rancho Canada inCarmel Valley (which is now a park/hiking trails instead of a golf course) and given the go ahead for Pasadera.

The complaints coincide with developement on and near Highway 68, San Benancio, Corral di Tierra, Los Laurales Estates, and even Boots Road, the area where Wayne Rainey lives, which were all developed in the late 80s, early 90s. Mostly it started with traffic issues at Laguna Seca events, but they included noise as well. As traffic issues ebbed and flowed, they continued about the noise. Many new residents claimed they weren’t told what’s Laguna Seca was when they purchased homes. Most people on the Peninsula welcome the events, whether at Pebble, or Laguna Seca.. you learn to adapt when you live in area that is built on an amusement economy like tourism, but a lot of these newcomers had no reason to.

I know Mike Weaver, we met in the 80s. He attends every BoS meeting. He bristled when I called him a NIMBY, and I said it jokingly when he announced he was running for the BoS, and that was when we worked together. Yeah, he’s a NIMBY, especially after he completed his house in Corral de Tierra, in the late 1980’s.

I see a pattern, do you?
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