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Old 10-03-2020, 09:08 AM   #121
Killroy1999
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Name a new technology that lead to people using less energy.

...

The only reason Electric vehicles are more efficient right now is because the cars and the infrastructure sucks. Once they're as good as combustion vehicles and infra, and autonomous vehicles stop driving into the back of cop cars, people will drive way more than they do currently and offset any efficiencies they once had.

Noisy motorcycles do more for the environment than electric motorcycles because they repel humans.

The most eco-friendly car is one that people refuse to drive.

Ban safety equipment. It'll make cars more dangerous, lighter, more aerodynamic and therefore incredibly eco-friendly.
You are pointing out two paradoxes:

-The efficiency paradox and the
-Cars are designed to keep people safe, but may kill more per year than guns designed to kill.

When transportation transitions to EVs, I don't think people are are going to drive more or spend more time. Autonomous vehicle's do have the opportunity to improve traffic and decrease time on the road.

Electric off road vehicles? Because no one heard them they were never there. Noting to complain about.
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:17 AM   #122
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I honestly do not think too many people will be buying cars by then or within a few years of then. Further, I suspect the electric cars will be the majority of cars sold well before that date because the battery tech will improve by then.

Just my view looking back on the electric car development over the last 15 years and extrapolating similar growth and development over the next 15 years...
At the rate we are going, we'll be lucky as a species to still exist. And us geezers will be lucky to be riding an electric scooter around the neighborhood in 2035....
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:47 AM   #123
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:22 PM   #124
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At the rate we are going, we'll be lucky as a species to still exist. And us geezers will be lucky to be riding an electric scooter around the neighborhood in 2035....
Not from population growth. PER PERSON Every new piece of tech that comes out makes people pollute more. The ”smarter” something is the more energy it consumes.

And killroy, I respectfully disagree with everything you've said in this thread. Take a page from the failure of the motorcycle industry: the more dangerous something is the less they do it. And vise versa is true too. The safer cars become, the more they'll drive. The more efficient cars become, the more they drive. The cheaper and more reliable cars become, the more they drive. Also meat doesn't cause health problems. That's baloney. Literally. Processed meat causes problems.

Human behavior only moves in one direction: traveling further, traveling faster, consuming more information, expending less metabolic energy. No ban on nothin’ will change that. The only thing stopping people is cost and safety.

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Old 10-05-2020, 01:23 PM   #125
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Not from population growth. PER PERSON Every new piece of tech that comes out makes people pollute more. The ”smarter” something is the more energy it consumes.

And killroy, I respectfully disagree with everything you've said in this thread. Take a page from the failure of the motorcycle industry: the more dangerous something is the less they do it. And vise versa is true too. The safer cars become, the more they'll drive. The more efficient cars become, the more they drive. The cheaper and more reliable cars become, the more they drive. Also meat doesn't cause health problems. That's baloney. Literally. Processed meat causes problems.

Human behavior only moves in one direction: traveling further, traveling faster, consuming more information, expending less metabolic energy. No ban on nothin’ will change that. The only thing stopping people is cost and safety.
I partially agree with what you are saying. A good example is inductive charging for phones. Yeah its nice to use rather than plug in a cable, but not each phone and charger is heavier with copper cabling and more energy is use to charge a phone regardless of energy use in that phone. This small change add up over the millions of phones.

You are right again when you look at total miles traveled in the US, which peaked around 2015 and went back up when the price of oil went down. One problem is that mass transit is shitty in the US because it has been mostly dismantled by the auto and oil companies decades ago. You really have to go to Asia and Europe to experience clean and efficient transit.

Alternative like walkable streets and bicycle commuting have improved over time. New York City is one of the best examples. The old model of building cities around the private automobile are being abandoned.

Yet, I'm looking at EIA total energy use and it looks flat-ish since the '80s with some fossil fuels going down and renewables going up. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/#summary

If we as a society are really serious about breathable air and the environment, then we need to shit to a pay to pollute strategy. Businesses would naturally become more efficient if driving becomes less subsidized.

Another thing is that Newsom's order is not a ban on ICE vehicles, its a goal to sell mostly EVs in the future. It does not mean anything without a real policy plan. Typically, especially with the auto industry the policy get's pattered down over time. If not, we would already have wide spread BEV and Fuel Cell vehicle adoptions in California.

Last edited by Killroy1999; 10-05-2020 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 10-05-2020, 06:17 PM   #126
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Human behavior only moves in one direction: traveling further, traveling faster, consuming more information, expending less metabolic energy. No ban on nothiní will change that. The only thing stopping people is cost and safety.
Yeah we all saw that movie

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Old 10-06-2020, 08:57 AM   #127
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Yeah we all saw that movie
i think wall-e was/is pretty prophetic, tbh.
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:17 AM   #128
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i think wall-e was/is pretty prophetic, tbh.
I would say, more observant than prophetic. Many people are already there.
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:26 AM   #129
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You could have more OHV parks and closer OHV parks if people didn't have crazy loud engines/modifications. Imagine a motocross track only a few blocks away that you can't hear. Or in-door motocross tracks that you can ride year-round no green/red sticker BS. Also, you don't lose hearing just by being at the track.
Sounds like someone could open an E only moto park a few blocks from home or in doors. Doesn't sound like you need to get rid of fossil fuel bikes to accomplish that..... BUT you can definitely go and spend the bucks to buy an E bike if you want to partake in that.
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Old 10-09-2020, 12:17 PM   #130
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Sounds like someone could open an E only moto park a few blocks from home or in doors. Doesn't sound like you need to get rid of fossil fuel bikes to accomplish that..... BUT you can definitely go and spend the bucks to buy an E bike if you want to partake in that.
Nah, I aint rich. But plenty of rich people exist that like to do cool stuff. Hopefully I can enjoy another rich persons dream of e-motocross nearby.
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